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Wordlisteners met tonight and we had 4 in attendance. We read and discussed Daniel chapters 9-11. Its interesting to read about Daniel a 70+ year old man who walked with God his entire life, and was still fearful during encounters. Its also amazing of the glimpses we get in the prophetic books of how what has happened in the past will be similarly repeated in the future.
Next week - we're taking the night off, and will meet again on 1/30. After Daniel we intend to start Zechariah.
Notes from tonights discussion.
Daniel Chapter 9
Daniel prays, based on what he has read in scripture. Do we pray for the soon
return of the Lord Jesus or along the lines of His will, or are we more self
focused? Daniel counted the years Jeremiah recorded for the time of the exile
of His people and prayed accordingly. He also fasted.
His prayer fits the form Jesus outlined for us to use. He tells God of His
greatness and faithfulness, and then turns to the condition of men, including
himself (Daniel) in the poor or fallen condition we are in.
The overthrow of Jerusalem was predicted by Moses if the people rejected God,
and Daniel is admitting the people had. Even when the overthrow of Jerusalem
happened we (the people) still did not seek God or turn from our ways to His.
Daniel is asking God to turn and look at His desolate sanctuary in Jerusalem.
Its interesting that He was there but turned His back to His people and
Jerusalem fell. Daniel is asking Him only to turn back around. He isn't
asking based on the merits of the people, but on the Holiness of God's nature
and His compassion. If we wait on the merits of the people, it will never
happen, thy Kingdom come- its what we should want- God here with us. A world
submitted to His will.
Daniel prays for Jerusalem to be restored, in the proper frame of mind, and
instantly the answer is sent, and Daniel is going to get the entire what will
happen before Jerusalem is properly or fully restored. Seventy weeks is
decreed for his people (the jews) and the city of Jerusalem to finish the
transgression and put an end to sin (not doing things God's way), and bring in
everlasting righteousness (reign of the Lord on earth).
Two time periods, 62 weeks and 7 weeks. The 62 weeks is over when Messiah is
cut off (crucified- rejected by men). The city will be destroyed again by the
people of the prince that is to come (anti-christ - Roman kingdom). The end of
the santuary and city will come with flood (of people?), and periods of
desolation. He (the prince who is to come - anti-christ) will make a covenent
with the many (Jews and Christians?) for one week but in the middle desolation
and complete destruction will come.
Daniel Chapter 10
Darius (Mede) replaced by Cyrus (Persian), in the third year of Cyrus another
message. He had been mourning and fasting for three weeks, because he had seen
an initial vision from God about his people, and received another vision from
God after the three weeks. This was the explanation. Those people who claim
to "know" what is going to happen, did they fast and mourn and seek God in the
way Daniel did? Were/are they as faithful to God as Daniel was? We really
can't know the hearts of others, one way or the other.
Daniel sees another vision after 24 days- what dedication to purpose to see an
initial vision so distressing that he would mourn three weeks, would we last 24
minutes? Daniel saw a vision others near him felt a dread and ran away. He
had no strength and fell on his face upon hearing the sound of the words. After
a life of walking with God, Daniel is still weak in the knees when He hears
from God. Daniel is helped to his knees, and told not to fear.
Daniel had sought understanding of the things of God (his previous visions),
and this angel was sent but delayed 21 days. This initial vision of what will
happen to his people in the future made him so distraught and weak. Does what
we think will happen in the 70th week cause us the same distress? How was
Daniel's heart for his people different than ours? This angel came to
strengthen him, and yet is in a fight with principalities and powers of
darkness - yet he will tell Daniel what is true and inscribed.
Daniel Chapter 11
All future, but starting from a point Daniel is aware of. Sometimes called
inter-testament history, Daniel wrote it 400 years before these things happened.
Three kings in Persia, then a 4th - the richest - who will attack Greece.
Xerxes invaded and was defeated 480 BC.
A mighty king will arise and do as he pleases - Alexander the Great. His
kingdom will be broken up into 4 parts. His kingdom was divided into Greece,
Asia minor, Syria (north) and Egypt (south). King of south's son becomes king
of Syria and was the most powerful of the successors.
A daughter Berenice was given by southern king (Egypt) to northern King (Syria),
but she was killed. Her brother then invaded Syria and won in retaliation.
Later the Syrian King attacked Egypt but was defeated, 14 years later he
returned with an even greater army and conquered Palestine and Egypt. He then
gives his daughter (Cleopatra) in marriage to the king of Egypt (Ptolemy V)
hoping to get complete control of Egypt, but his daughter stands with her
husband. The king of the North Antiochus then invades Asia Minor and Greece to
be defeated by Rome. He returned to his own land and was slain.
Antiochus Epiphanes - not the rightful heir to Antiochus got the throne by
deception and treachery, then made himself master of Egypt- the richest of the
kingdoms- something Antiochus his predecessor could not do. He is friendly
towards the king of the south Ptolomey VI (Cleopatra's son), but only for gain.
Antiochus Epiphanes returning from Egypt will attack Jerusalem killing 80,000
and selling some into slavery. Later he returns to Egypt but is forced to
withdraw by the Romans. He takes his defeat out on Jerusalem, stopping
sacrifices and desecrating the temple. This happened in part or maybe as a
glimpse of the future but not fully. Godly people with insight will opposed
him and were slain. The Godly were/are slain to purge and make some pure until
the end time (which again - a glimpse was given).
From versus 36-45 partly Antiochus Epiphanes, partly those who control the
temple sight, partly the anti-christ. This is end time happenings in Jerusalem
some of which may have happened at other various times in history. There will
be a culmination at the end. After all Daniel's vision is about ending sin.
Sunday, January 16, 2011
Saturday, January 15, 2011
On January 9th, Wordlisteners resumed meeting. We had 4 in attendance and we read and discussed Daniel Chapter 5-8.
Here are the notes:
Daniel Chapter 5
This is a story relating the end of Babylon. A couple generations after
Nebuchadnezzar, and yet Daniel was still there. Belshazzar was drinking from
gold and silver vessels that had been dedicated to God and taken from the
temple many years earlier in Jerusalem. They are praising the gods of wealth
and things- sadly the primary focus of society today -wealth and things. Then
a hand appeared and wrote on the wall.
He was alarmed and sought interpretation, but none could. Only Daniel who
walked with God was able to interpret and see what was about to happen.
Telling people prophecy and what will happen will do no good, until they
develop and strengthen their relationship with Christ. That is what to pray
for. Daniel walked with God and he saw and could tell what was happening, no
other “wise” man, magician or conjurer could. Daniel was even known for being
able to solve difficult problems. They thought he had the spirit of the gods
or was magical, but it had to do with his relationship to God and that alone.
Having a relationship with God means He will show you things. He knows when
you're ready and He will lead your thoughts to understanding. It has nothing
to do with the person, God can do it with anyone that is faithful. To deny
that its possible is to deny the power of God.
Daniel acknowledges the king's position, and then talks about Nebuchadnezzar.
How great and powerful he was and yet he was humbled by God (7 years with the
mind of a beast- followed by repentance). Belshazzar knew the story and yet
ignored it, and exalted himself. Bringing in the temple vessels was the last
part. So his kingdom is about to be taken from him, the handwriting on the
wall is the warning (again that nobody could interpret but those that walked
with God. It happened that night, the Medes and Persians took over. Darius
the Mede was now king.
Daniel Chapter 6
Darius appointed rulers to help him run the kingdom and Daniel was one of them.
Daniel's reputation was solid, and additionally he distinguished himself. Not
because he was special, but rather that he followed God. Served Him and obeyed
Him.
Daniel's favor with the king made people jealous they wanted what he had
(coveting) but were not willing to submit to God and develop relationship with
Him. So they looked into his background and mannerisms, but could find no
fault. Are your habits and mannerisms such that you would not feel
uncomfortable in having anyone look over your shoulder at everything you do???
So they devised a plan to trap him based on his faithfulness to God. They
played to King Darius' pride who helped them out by not checking the facts, and
got him to make a decree that people could only pray to him. It takes a lot of
pride to decide you are the one with all the answers and that you are God.
Again an anti-christ example. He will go into the Temple dedicated to God and
proclaim himself god.
Then they caught Daniel breaking the decree as was his custom – fellowship in
prayer with God 3 times a day. Jesus often went to secluded places to pray-
getting away often. They informed the king, and even though he liked Daniel,
it would have been a sign of weakness to go back on his decree. Not many
leaders admit errors (prideful). So Daniel was thrown into the lions' den, and
it was sealed – like the tomb of Jesus. Like Jesus going to preach between His
death and resurrection and God being with Him, God was with Daniel in the
lions' den. Darius couldn't sleep but knew that the true God could save
Daniel. He followed it up by actively going the next morning to see if Daniel
had been protected. Daniel was over 70 years old at this point.
Daniel had been protected and was freed, and a decree made to fear God. Those
who meant Daniel harm were thrown in the lions' den along with their families
(children and wives). This seems cruel, but it is important to realize that
our evil intentions directly affect our families, just like our walking with
God actually blesses our families. Pride and coveting can bring us to the
point of being so self focused that we the very lives of our loved ones.
Daniel like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego had to decide and act in a manner
that either served God or man. The same choice awaits those in the tribulation
period, and really all of us on a day to day basis. Daniel went to the lions'
den like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego went to the fiery furnace trusting God
but unsure as to whether God would save them. God did and used their
faithfulness to get the rulers of the kingdoms of the day to send out decrees
affirming God in heaven.
Daniel Chapter 7
A first year of Belshazzar vision (70th year of Babylon) Daniel aged and
experienced and had walked with God a while. Essentially the same vision he
had interpreted of Nebuchadnezzar's dream when he was in his twenties. Four
beasts, the last most terrifying. These are the four world powers between
Daniel's time and the time of Jesus- when the Kingdom of God is begun. The
iron kingdom is Rome in power at the time of Christ and it will be revived at
the time of the end. A federation of kingdoms over which one ruler will gain
control or influence. This leader will (horn that springs among the 10 and
uproots three of the leaders) will make boasts, and be against the Most High.
Daniel simultaneously records that in heaven the Most High is on the throne and
the books are being opened (time of the end) while these boasts against God are
happening on the earth. Boastful words is a sign of talk but not action, this
king will be powerless in the things that matter, and won't do the things of
God. The anti-christ.
The three previous beasts had lost their dominion, but there is still a remnant
at the time of the end. These remnants will be around - the kingdoms present
during the millenial reign. Jesus is given dominion by God for the millenial
reign and other nations will serve Him.
The beasts are four kingdoms or four great kings, but its the saints of God,
those that submit to Him that will receive or inherit the enduring Kingdom.
The fourth beast is the anti-christ, and he'll wage war on the saints, and for
a season overpower them. God allows this, but as stated before He is in
complete control. At the right time He will step in and the saints will take
possession of the eternal enduring Kingdom.
This fourth kingdom and leader will "devour the earth" or dominate the earth
but not necessarily control every part. The anti-christ is a charismatic
leader who will arise out of a federation of kingdoms. He will probably
acknowledge the existence of God, and recognize at least in word the Power of
God. He will seemingly have answers and good ideas and recognize God as a
higher authority, but he will not do the things of God, and pride of self will
eventually lead to him blasphemes against God. He will deceive many for a
while until his pride shows his true heart or lack of fruits of the spirit. He
will be given worldy dominion over the saints as satan was given authority over
Job for three and a half years. He will be able to kill them, but God is
still in control even through that, and eventually will judge and annihilate
him.
The saints will be given sovereignty, and the kingdom Jesus started at the
cross will come into actual world rule.
Daniel was alarmed by his vision, he saw the unpleasantness of this time, and
the seeming helplessness of those that are the Lord's. It was more fearful to
him than what he had witnessed in 70+ years of life.
Daniel Chapter 8
Another vision for Daniel, making this a third vision of the future. This one
starts out with the transition between the second world power the Medo-Persian
and the third the Greeks. His Prediction is 200 years before it happened. He
also predicts that the Greek empire would be split into four kingdoms- which
happened.
We are looking back and comparing the historical record to the prophesy and we
see the accute accuracy of it. Prophecy tends to be unbelievable, and then it
happens and we see its confirmation.
Of the four parts of the greek empire the king of the South becomes very
powerful. Again predicted early, and this leader- generally considered to be
Antiochus Epiphanes - but also giving us a glimpse of anti-christ like behavior
in the end times. On account of transgression Antiochus then and anti-christ
soon was/will be allowed to trample Jerusalem, and the people of God will be
given over to him. His dominion will last 2300 days (7 years). The king of
the south did trample Jerusalem historically, killing many, so that little
piece of prophecy got fulfilled. Most of what is described and the time frame
has yet to happen though. God shows us glimpses in History with the worst (or
best depending on your relationship to God) to come yet to happen.
Daniel then gets an interpretation. The prophecy pertains to the time of the
end, that is said up front. The Ram is identified for Daniel as the
Medo-Persian empire (in his time just getting established). The goat
represents Greece (unheard of at that time), and the large horn being Alexander
the Great the first king (he established the Greek empire). When Alexander
died there was no strong leader so the greek empire did in fact split into four
parts, all weaker than the original whole. Predicted very accurately before it
happened.
Take a minute and predict what will happen in South Carolina next week, then a
week later see how you did. Will you do as well as Daniel did, and consider he
was a man like us. The prophecy came from God- who saw it happen and relayed
it back to Daniel.
In the latter part of the greek rule (Rome was now growing in influence at the
time of Antiochus Epiphanes and about to become the dominant world power. His
actions will blur in similarity to that of anti-christ. He is an insulting
individual but intriguing, which evidently caused people to put him into power.
This sounds very similar to a politician on the scene today. One that publicly
insults people, but yet people are intrigued by. This will be the character of
the one the Bible calls anti-christ. Abrasive and yet intriguing. His power
will be mighty but not be his own power (spiritual world help? ) and he will
destroy to an extraordinary degree and perform his will (note his and not
God's- selfish me first or my way attitude). He will destroy mighty men and
holy people, deceit will succeed, magnify himself, and destroy many at ease.
He will even oppose Christ - this isn't at this point Antiochus- who did kill
many in Jerusalem and descrate the temple in his time. Its interesting that
Antiochus did this after suffering a defeat at the hands of Rome. He went to
Jerusalem (place of God) and picked on the Jews there (at relative peace).
Maybe he did this because he was mad at God for his defeat and knew the source
of it.
Antiochus was broken and the anti-christ will be -"without human agency" - so
it will be God Himself that does it- this doesn't apply to Antiochus. The 2300
days doesn't seem to apply to Antiochus either.
This vision made Daniel very distraught, exhausted and sick for days. The
vision astonished him.
Here are the notes:
Daniel Chapter 5
This is a story relating the end of Babylon. A couple generations after
Nebuchadnezzar, and yet Daniel was still there. Belshazzar was drinking from
gold and silver vessels that had been dedicated to God and taken from the
temple many years earlier in Jerusalem. They are praising the gods of wealth
and things- sadly the primary focus of society today -wealth and things. Then
a hand appeared and wrote on the wall.
He was alarmed and sought interpretation, but none could. Only Daniel who
walked with God was able to interpret and see what was about to happen.
Telling people prophecy and what will happen will do no good, until they
develop and strengthen their relationship with Christ. That is what to pray
for. Daniel walked with God and he saw and could tell what was happening, no
other “wise” man, magician or conjurer could. Daniel was even known for being
able to solve difficult problems. They thought he had the spirit of the gods
or was magical, but it had to do with his relationship to God and that alone.
Having a relationship with God means He will show you things. He knows when
you're ready and He will lead your thoughts to understanding. It has nothing
to do with the person, God can do it with anyone that is faithful. To deny
that its possible is to deny the power of God.
Daniel acknowledges the king's position, and then talks about Nebuchadnezzar.
How great and powerful he was and yet he was humbled by God (7 years with the
mind of a beast- followed by repentance). Belshazzar knew the story and yet
ignored it, and exalted himself. Bringing in the temple vessels was the last
part. So his kingdom is about to be taken from him, the handwriting on the
wall is the warning (again that nobody could interpret but those that walked
with God. It happened that night, the Medes and Persians took over. Darius
the Mede was now king.
Daniel Chapter 6
Darius appointed rulers to help him run the kingdom and Daniel was one of them.
Daniel's reputation was solid, and additionally he distinguished himself. Not
because he was special, but rather that he followed God. Served Him and obeyed
Him.
Daniel's favor with the king made people jealous they wanted what he had
(coveting) but were not willing to submit to God and develop relationship with
Him. So they looked into his background and mannerisms, but could find no
fault. Are your habits and mannerisms such that you would not feel
uncomfortable in having anyone look over your shoulder at everything you do???
So they devised a plan to trap him based on his faithfulness to God. They
played to King Darius' pride who helped them out by not checking the facts, and
got him to make a decree that people could only pray to him. It takes a lot of
pride to decide you are the one with all the answers and that you are God.
Again an anti-christ example. He will go into the Temple dedicated to God and
proclaim himself god.
Then they caught Daniel breaking the decree as was his custom – fellowship in
prayer with God 3 times a day. Jesus often went to secluded places to pray-
getting away often. They informed the king, and even though he liked Daniel,
it would have been a sign of weakness to go back on his decree. Not many
leaders admit errors (prideful). So Daniel was thrown into the lions' den, and
it was sealed – like the tomb of Jesus. Like Jesus going to preach between His
death and resurrection and God being with Him, God was with Daniel in the
lions' den. Darius couldn't sleep but knew that the true God could save
Daniel. He followed it up by actively going the next morning to see if Daniel
had been protected. Daniel was over 70 years old at this point.
Daniel had been protected and was freed, and a decree made to fear God. Those
who meant Daniel harm were thrown in the lions' den along with their families
(children and wives). This seems cruel, but it is important to realize that
our evil intentions directly affect our families, just like our walking with
God actually blesses our families. Pride and coveting can bring us to the
point of being so self focused that we the very lives of our loved ones.
Daniel like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego had to decide and act in a manner
that either served God or man. The same choice awaits those in the tribulation
period, and really all of us on a day to day basis. Daniel went to the lions'
den like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego went to the fiery furnace trusting God
but unsure as to whether God would save them. God did and used their
faithfulness to get the rulers of the kingdoms of the day to send out decrees
affirming God in heaven.
Daniel Chapter 7
A first year of Belshazzar vision (70th year of Babylon) Daniel aged and
experienced and had walked with God a while. Essentially the same vision he
had interpreted of Nebuchadnezzar's dream when he was in his twenties. Four
beasts, the last most terrifying. These are the four world powers between
Daniel's time and the time of Jesus- when the Kingdom of God is begun. The
iron kingdom is Rome in power at the time of Christ and it will be revived at
the time of the end. A federation of kingdoms over which one ruler will gain
control or influence. This leader will (horn that springs among the 10 and
uproots three of the leaders) will make boasts, and be against the Most High.
Daniel simultaneously records that in heaven the Most High is on the throne and
the books are being opened (time of the end) while these boasts against God are
happening on the earth. Boastful words is a sign of talk but not action, this
king will be powerless in the things that matter, and won't do the things of
God. The anti-christ.
The three previous beasts had lost their dominion, but there is still a remnant
at the time of the end. These remnants will be around - the kingdoms present
during the millenial reign. Jesus is given dominion by God for the millenial
reign and other nations will serve Him.
The beasts are four kingdoms or four great kings, but its the saints of God,
those that submit to Him that will receive or inherit the enduring Kingdom.
The fourth beast is the anti-christ, and he'll wage war on the saints, and for
a season overpower them. God allows this, but as stated before He is in
complete control. At the right time He will step in and the saints will take
possession of the eternal enduring Kingdom.
This fourth kingdom and leader will "devour the earth" or dominate the earth
but not necessarily control every part. The anti-christ is a charismatic
leader who will arise out of a federation of kingdoms. He will probably
acknowledge the existence of God, and recognize at least in word the Power of
God. He will seemingly have answers and good ideas and recognize God as a
higher authority, but he will not do the things of God, and pride of self will
eventually lead to him blasphemes against God. He will deceive many for a
while until his pride shows his true heart or lack of fruits of the spirit. He
will be given worldy dominion over the saints as satan was given authority over
Job for three and a half years. He will be able to kill them, but God is
still in control even through that, and eventually will judge and annihilate
him.
The saints will be given sovereignty, and the kingdom Jesus started at the
cross will come into actual world rule.
Daniel was alarmed by his vision, he saw the unpleasantness of this time, and
the seeming helplessness of those that are the Lord's. It was more fearful to
him than what he had witnessed in 70+ years of life.
Daniel Chapter 8
Another vision for Daniel, making this a third vision of the future. This one
starts out with the transition between the second world power the Medo-Persian
and the third the Greeks. His Prediction is 200 years before it happened. He
also predicts that the Greek empire would be split into four kingdoms- which
happened.
We are looking back and comparing the historical record to the prophesy and we
see the accute accuracy of it. Prophecy tends to be unbelievable, and then it
happens and we see its confirmation.
Of the four parts of the greek empire the king of the South becomes very
powerful. Again predicted early, and this leader- generally considered to be
Antiochus Epiphanes - but also giving us a glimpse of anti-christ like behavior
in the end times. On account of transgression Antiochus then and anti-christ
soon was/will be allowed to trample Jerusalem, and the people of God will be
given over to him. His dominion will last 2300 days (7 years). The king of
the south did trample Jerusalem historically, killing many, so that little
piece of prophecy got fulfilled. Most of what is described and the time frame
has yet to happen though. God shows us glimpses in History with the worst (or
best depending on your relationship to God) to come yet to happen.
Daniel then gets an interpretation. The prophecy pertains to the time of the
end, that is said up front. The Ram is identified for Daniel as the
Medo-Persian empire (in his time just getting established). The goat
represents Greece (unheard of at that time), and the large horn being Alexander
the Great the first king (he established the Greek empire). When Alexander
died there was no strong leader so the greek empire did in fact split into four
parts, all weaker than the original whole. Predicted very accurately before it
happened.
Take a minute and predict what will happen in South Carolina next week, then a
week later see how you did. Will you do as well as Daniel did, and consider he
was a man like us. The prophecy came from God- who saw it happen and relayed
it back to Daniel.
In the latter part of the greek rule (Rome was now growing in influence at the
time of Antiochus Epiphanes and about to become the dominant world power. His
actions will blur in similarity to that of anti-christ. He is an insulting
individual but intriguing, which evidently caused people to put him into power.
This sounds very similar to a politician on the scene today. One that publicly
insults people, but yet people are intrigued by. This will be the character of
the one the Bible calls anti-christ. Abrasive and yet intriguing. His power
will be mighty but not be his own power (spiritual world help? ) and he will
destroy to an extraordinary degree and perform his will (note his and not
God's- selfish me first or my way attitude). He will destroy mighty men and
holy people, deceit will succeed, magnify himself, and destroy many at ease.
He will even oppose Christ - this isn't at this point Antiochus- who did kill
many in Jerusalem and descrate the temple in his time. Its interesting that
Antiochus did this after suffering a defeat at the hands of Rome. He went to
Jerusalem (place of God) and picked on the Jews there (at relative peace).
Maybe he did this because he was mad at God for his defeat and knew the source
of it.
Antiochus was broken and the anti-christ will be -"without human agency" - so
it will be God Himself that does it- this doesn't apply to Antiochus. The 2300
days doesn't seem to apply to Antiochus either.
This vision made Daniel very distraught, exhausted and sick for days. The
vision astonished him.
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