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On Sunday night we had two for word listeners. The conversation was lively and we covered only 2 chapters - Ezekiel 12 and 13.
The notes are as follows:
Ezekiel 12
A rebellious people eyes that don't see and ears that don't hear. Blindness and deafness we often feel is a tragedy but is God using it as an example that there is more to life than perfect health in this world? We know the blind miss out on some beautiful sights, and that the deaf miss out on some beautiful sounds, but here is an example of people that were missing out on God. There is more to life than this physical world.
Ezekiel is to be a sign act again, he is to act out going into exile. An example for people to see rather than just words of warning. A visual. He is to act out the people's fate (if they don't turn- a chance was given in Jeremiah to Zedekiah), and in particular the fate of Zedekiah, who will go into exile blind - not seeing the country he is taken too, nor the country he is leaving from again. Since he couldn't "see" the truth of God, why did he need eyes?
Into exile, tunneling through walls and escaping -or trying to in the middle of the night. Some will survive to be a witness about how God punished their disobedience. They will realize that it was from God and will tell people.
Eat shaking, during the siege the fear will be there. The land will stripped bare for all the sin during punishment.
Prophecy is often assumed to be at a "later time". The people had assumed all these warnings are for later. It is easy to see for us who live very limited times in comparison to God who is timeless to come to that conclusion. God's word is often delayed, but it won't be for the generation being warned in Jerusalem. God always keeps His promises. His timing may be delayed, and the fulfillment often comes in stages, but it does happen.
Ezekiel 13
Prophecy is a message from God. People make up things out of their own head and call it a message from God. It happened then and it still happens today. Why? They think they have insight that others don't have, which seemingly makes them better than other people. Which is a sign of pride and not a message from God. If you are going to be God's messenger or prophet, then you need to be able to hear from Him. Time, place and method of hearing. To rely on what "comes to mind" can be an overactive imagination, or a thought of the enemy in addition to really being of God. We have the real thing - His word. We can share how we as an individual "see God in this passage". In thinking about His word, we need to think about how Jesus is manifested - in some way. We also need to dwell on the word of God, reading it and thinking about it often.
Getting back to prophets who make things up, they are doomed. Their messages won't align with God's word, their intentions are selfish, they aren't truly seeking God's will, or following it. They have fallen into the trap of pleasing men. In the second paragraph it implies these prophets talk but don't act. Are they so convinced their message is from God that they are willing to go it alone? Repairing the city, preparing for the future needs.
Lying or false prophets will not be part of God's people. They withhold from God's people the truth, or soften it in some way. Not unlike people in job situations that set out to deceive their workers, because the truth (in their opinion) is too unpleasant to fully disclose. In that time the prophets in Jerusalem denied that judgment was coming. In our time there is denial that God will act and allow the judgment predicted in the end times of the Bible. Its God's world, when He is ready it will happen, and it won't be pleasant for those who have denied Him. Those that have accepted Him, He will protect (in some way)- He has done it in the past, in similar situations on a smaller scale, but the same things have come to pass. When His wrath is let loose (interesting that the message edition uses Hurricane and I had talked about Katrina earlier) it will be bigger than man can make, and the messages of the false prophets who spoke comfort will be just that empty messages not truly from God.
So how do you know if your prophet is receiving messages from God or making them up out of his/her own mind? The short answer is you don't. You have to develop your relationship with the Lord, you have to "listen" for God in His word, or in other ways He may choose to manifest His message. Be very careful of listening to men and their thoughts. They may very well be from God, and they may very well not be.
In the end of the chapter he has a message against women prophets. Like the others they made up things in their own minds, just to get ahead materially in this life. God will deliver His people from their influence, and He wants to deliver us all. He delivers us by sending Christ and allowing us to get our own message from Him, usually through His written Word. We all want God to speak a new and different word to each of us, but then wouldn't He be singling us out and potentially feeding our pride? So He may very well not.
Tuesday, January 26, 2010
Sunday, January 10, 2010
Jan 10, 2010 Ezekiel chs 8-11
Wordlisteners met tonight after a long absence during Christmas. There was 2 in attendance, and we discussed Ezekiel Chapters 8-11.
In chapter 8 we wondered why people turn to idols and feel God does not see them. A less than proper understanding of God is the only way you can come to the point where you feel God does not see what you do.
Additionally God cannot be controlled, and often our fear (really our wants) keep us from submitting to His will because He knows better than we do what is best for us.
In Chapter 9 we see that God is meticulous and marks those in Jerusalem deserving death. He also evacuated the righteous from Sodom and Gomorrah prior to judgment. So to say God allows innocent people to die and be killed is to elevate oneself to His level.
In Chapter 10 it was pointed out that Ezekiel's vision is similar to the one in Revelation that is the throne of God in heaven.
In Chapter 11 we get a glimpse of the millennial reign in versus 17-20.
Jesus is coming. He came as a Savior, and He is coming back as a ruling King. Not sure what to do? pray for God's guidance and follow His leadings. When not sure don't, God can raise up someone else if he needs to. Don't not follow God out of fear, or laziness, but continue bringing your concerns to Him, you'll get clear signals at some point..
Below are my reading notes.
Ezekiel 8 Why do people make up and serve other gods? In reading Ezekiel Chapter 8 God shows Ezekiel all the ways people are worshiping other gods in addition to Jehovah. The shrines are by His temple, and some of it even goes on in His temple. Examples are a sex god alter near the temple- in sight and an image in the temple. Pictures of animals in the temple being worshiped by leaders of Israel in the dark thinking God does not see. Weeping for the fertility god of the Babylonians, and finally inside the temple to 25 men with their backs to God's temple worshiping the sun. Back to my original question- why other gods?
Its clear the vision they have of God isn't big enough in some cases. The larger He is the smaller we have to admit we are. At some point we realize we are not in control and He is. This is scary for people who also don't make the supposition that God knows what He is doing, and its OK for Him to be in control. Our self takes a hit, we are not in control, and the ground of our mind is fertile to grow the thought that God might send us somewhere we don't want to go, or ask us to do something we don't want to do. We cling to our existence, start liking and enjoying certain aspects, and want more. We easily forget that it was God that gave us all this in the first place, and then somehow add the insult to Him that we don't believe He is capable of continuing to provide.
Since a near proper concept of God would clearly mean we cannot control Him, it is easy to fall into the distraction of creating things we can control. These gods will after all only require from us what we are willing to give whereas God may ask something of us we feel is not reasonable. We should be willing to give to God what He asks but that can be a fearful thought. So lets look at some of these gods.
The sex one- pleasure, we all like pleasurable experiences. Sex is a way for God to bless us - with bonding and with children, but we often want to be in control, and children mean sacrifice. Are we willing to give it? We reason that we should be able to have all the pleasure we want without any consequences to ourselves. So the pleasure of sex can easily outweigh any of the responsibility. In this chapter there is the example of those praying to the fertility god. This clearly is putting something ahead of God who is the One who blesses with children.
Those hiding in the dark thinking God doesn't see, don't have a near proper concept of Him. The last one was worshipers with their backs to God's Temple. A turning of their backs to God. In going after or creating gods we control that give us the answers we want to hear we are in fact turning our backs to God. We are becoming distracted by ourselves and our wants rather than His. This ultimately leads to our suffering, and the suffering of others in the interim before we get to the point of being personally affected.
God says He wants to be first. He says He is jealous. It may seem selfish on His part, but He is God. He is about taking care of His creation (namely us and this world we live in), and He means taking care of all of us, not just a few at the expense of others as we would want Him to do. Our concept of Him needs to be such that we realize He is doing it, even when we have no idea how. Then we will realize that when we don't put Him first we are hurting ourselves, and Him first is in our best interest.
Ezekiel 9 God is meticulous and pays attention to the individual. Collectively the city of Jerusalem was in sin, but as in most cases that probably didn't include everyone. So God sent an angel or some being to mark those that were not worthy of the death and destruction he had decreed on the city. The people marked were actually spared. God got the righteous out of Sodom and Gomorrah before He destroyed it, and wasn't willing to destroy an entire city if there were just a few righteous in it. He is all about justice and fairness although that remains an area we have a difficult time conceptually. Those without the mark were put to the sword without compassion because they felt no anguish at the conditions of Jerusalem. The people had stated that God had forsaken Jerusalem (probably because of the wickedness) but in fact God was there in the midst of it and knew exactly what was going on and what each and every individual was thinking and their heart condition.
Ezekiel 10 Here we have the vision of God again at the temple. God commanded coals be taken and spread out over the city. Is this God commanded destruction of the city? The Temple is presently filled with glory of God, but the presence of God is about to leave His Temple. So after years and multiple prophet warnings the glory of God is leaving the Temple, He is going to turn His head and let His Temple and His people be profaned because of their disobedience. They are still called His people even though they have turned their backs to Him.
Vs 14 is similar to the throne of God vision in Revelation, and the beings that guard God's throne. 3 of the 4 things described are the same.
Ezekiel 11 Ezekiel is carried by the spirit of the Lord from exile to Jerusalem (Halley's calls it "raptured"). With the initial group of the "best of Judah" (exiles) removed from Jerusalem another set of leaders stepped up and took control. They now gave advice and their pride is clear- they think they are the meat in the pot. They also believe God put them there after removing the others. This is not unlike the self proclaimed high priest in Jeremiah. Ezekiel is told to stand against them- God knows their thoughts, and evil is rampant in the city (as shown in the Chapter 10). Those they have killed are really the meat, they will be removed from the city. They fear war so war is what they will get (Prov 10:24) further evidence of their wickedness. They will be delivered into stranger's hands for judgment. When they see themselves falling by the sword they will remember the prophecy against them and know the God is God, hopefully they repented. Why? they didn't walk in God's statutes. They led the nation into being just like the nations around them rather than following God- sound familiar. We want to be "like the other nations" rather than being like the US. During this prophecy a person died, and Ezekiel wondered if God would take everyone.
14- The new leaders in Jerusalem then state their case for their authority- namely that the others had been taken away. They associated being in Jerusalem and near God's temple as justification for their authority. Their vision of God is limited, and Ezekiel prophecies that God provides a sanctuary for those He has removed that God will gather them back up and bring them back to Israel. They will remove idols, and will be given a new heart, and walk in the ordinances of God. They will be His people. Halley's Bible handbook says that even though they remain guilty of other sins they are not idolaters. Idolaters will be chased down by God and their conduct will be on their heads. Ezekiel is then returned to the people in exile.
17-20 describes the millennial reign. This has been partially but not completely fulfilled. Yes the Israelites came out of exile, yes they don't have the same issue with idolatry. They don't have God, or all their land, so it can't be complete.
In chapter 8 we wondered why people turn to idols and feel God does not see them. A less than proper understanding of God is the only way you can come to the point where you feel God does not see what you do.
Additionally God cannot be controlled, and often our fear (really our wants) keep us from submitting to His will because He knows better than we do what is best for us.
In Chapter 9 we see that God is meticulous and marks those in Jerusalem deserving death. He also evacuated the righteous from Sodom and Gomorrah prior to judgment. So to say God allows innocent people to die and be killed is to elevate oneself to His level.
In Chapter 10 it was pointed out that Ezekiel's vision is similar to the one in Revelation that is the throne of God in heaven.
In Chapter 11 we get a glimpse of the millennial reign in versus 17-20.
Jesus is coming. He came as a Savior, and He is coming back as a ruling King. Not sure what to do? pray for God's guidance and follow His leadings. When not sure don't, God can raise up someone else if he needs to. Don't not follow God out of fear, or laziness, but continue bringing your concerns to Him, you'll get clear signals at some point..
Below are my reading notes.
Ezekiel 8 Why do people make up and serve other gods? In reading Ezekiel Chapter 8 God shows Ezekiel all the ways people are worshiping other gods in addition to Jehovah. The shrines are by His temple, and some of it even goes on in His temple. Examples are a sex god alter near the temple- in sight and an image in the temple. Pictures of animals in the temple being worshiped by leaders of Israel in the dark thinking God does not see. Weeping for the fertility god of the Babylonians, and finally inside the temple to 25 men with their backs to God's temple worshiping the sun. Back to my original question- why other gods?
Its clear the vision they have of God isn't big enough in some cases. The larger He is the smaller we have to admit we are. At some point we realize we are not in control and He is. This is scary for people who also don't make the supposition that God knows what He is doing, and its OK for Him to be in control. Our self takes a hit, we are not in control, and the ground of our mind is fertile to grow the thought that God might send us somewhere we don't want to go, or ask us to do something we don't want to do. We cling to our existence, start liking and enjoying certain aspects, and want more. We easily forget that it was God that gave us all this in the first place, and then somehow add the insult to Him that we don't believe He is capable of continuing to provide.
Since a near proper concept of God would clearly mean we cannot control Him, it is easy to fall into the distraction of creating things we can control. These gods will after all only require from us what we are willing to give whereas God may ask something of us we feel is not reasonable. We should be willing to give to God what He asks but that can be a fearful thought. So lets look at some of these gods.
The sex one- pleasure, we all like pleasurable experiences. Sex is a way for God to bless us - with bonding and with children, but we often want to be in control, and children mean sacrifice. Are we willing to give it? We reason that we should be able to have all the pleasure we want without any consequences to ourselves. So the pleasure of sex can easily outweigh any of the responsibility. In this chapter there is the example of those praying to the fertility god. This clearly is putting something ahead of God who is the One who blesses with children.
Those hiding in the dark thinking God doesn't see, don't have a near proper concept of Him. The last one was worshipers with their backs to God's Temple. A turning of their backs to God. In going after or creating gods we control that give us the answers we want to hear we are in fact turning our backs to God. We are becoming distracted by ourselves and our wants rather than His. This ultimately leads to our suffering, and the suffering of others in the interim before we get to the point of being personally affected.
God says He wants to be first. He says He is jealous. It may seem selfish on His part, but He is God. He is about taking care of His creation (namely us and this world we live in), and He means taking care of all of us, not just a few at the expense of others as we would want Him to do. Our concept of Him needs to be such that we realize He is doing it, even when we have no idea how. Then we will realize that when we don't put Him first we are hurting ourselves, and Him first is in our best interest.
Ezekiel 9 God is meticulous and pays attention to the individual. Collectively the city of Jerusalem was in sin, but as in most cases that probably didn't include everyone. So God sent an angel or some being to mark those that were not worthy of the death and destruction he had decreed on the city. The people marked were actually spared. God got the righteous out of Sodom and Gomorrah before He destroyed it, and wasn't willing to destroy an entire city if there were just a few righteous in it. He is all about justice and fairness although that remains an area we have a difficult time conceptually. Those without the mark were put to the sword without compassion because they felt no anguish at the conditions of Jerusalem. The people had stated that God had forsaken Jerusalem (probably because of the wickedness) but in fact God was there in the midst of it and knew exactly what was going on and what each and every individual was thinking and their heart condition.
Ezekiel 10 Here we have the vision of God again at the temple. God commanded coals be taken and spread out over the city. Is this God commanded destruction of the city? The Temple is presently filled with glory of God, but the presence of God is about to leave His Temple. So after years and multiple prophet warnings the glory of God is leaving the Temple, He is going to turn His head and let His Temple and His people be profaned because of their disobedience. They are still called His people even though they have turned their backs to Him.
Vs 14 is similar to the throne of God vision in Revelation, and the beings that guard God's throne. 3 of the 4 things described are the same.
Ezekiel 11 Ezekiel is carried by the spirit of the Lord from exile to Jerusalem (Halley's calls it "raptured"). With the initial group of the "best of Judah" (exiles) removed from Jerusalem another set of leaders stepped up and took control. They now gave advice and their pride is clear- they think they are the meat in the pot. They also believe God put them there after removing the others. This is not unlike the self proclaimed high priest in Jeremiah. Ezekiel is told to stand against them- God knows their thoughts, and evil is rampant in the city (as shown in the Chapter 10). Those they have killed are really the meat, they will be removed from the city. They fear war so war is what they will get (Prov 10:24) further evidence of their wickedness. They will be delivered into stranger's hands for judgment. When they see themselves falling by the sword they will remember the prophecy against them and know the God is God, hopefully they repented. Why? they didn't walk in God's statutes. They led the nation into being just like the nations around them rather than following God- sound familiar. We want to be "like the other nations" rather than being like the US. During this prophecy a person died, and Ezekiel wondered if God would take everyone.
14- The new leaders in Jerusalem then state their case for their authority- namely that the others had been taken away. They associated being in Jerusalem and near God's temple as justification for their authority. Their vision of God is limited, and Ezekiel prophecies that God provides a sanctuary for those He has removed that God will gather them back up and bring them back to Israel. They will remove idols, and will be given a new heart, and walk in the ordinances of God. They will be His people. Halley's Bible handbook says that even though they remain guilty of other sins they are not idolaters. Idolaters will be chased down by God and their conduct will be on their heads. Ezekiel is then returned to the people in exile.
17-20 describes the millennial reign. This has been partially but not completely fulfilled. Yes the Israelites came out of exile, yes they don't have the same issue with idolatry. They don't have God, or all their land, so it can't be complete.
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