May 31, 2009 Wordlisteners

We had eight tonight and covered Chapters 7-9 of Jeremiah. The
discussion was lively and God spoke to each of us through His word.

There is NO Wordlisteners next week - 1st Sundays are praise and worship
services and we have a bluegrass band coming. Please join us at 7pm.

Our next Wordlisteners will be June 14 at 7pm, and we will be on
Jeremiah Chapters 10-13 most likely.

Notes from tonight:

Jeremiah Chapter 7
God is not fooled, He sees what we do, he knows are true motives (not what we might try and convince ourselves of), and He is aware of our effort. He will act, He has in the past- we only need to consider Israel. In Jeremiah's time Israel was the example of what would happen. Judah didn't believe it so now we have both of them as examples for us.

We fail to listen, and yet He speaks to us through His word. His word is the best documented now as it ever has been in History, and yet understanding of His principles may be at an all time low for most people.

He calls us to truly acknowledge our ways - that they are not His, and to adjust our thinking.

The situation was so bad, he told Jeremiah not to pray (intercede) for that people. He is not going to listen, His decision is set in motion. I don't know how He measures it, but he has had enough. The situation was so bad that there was cultural denial of God (much like today). Fathers, mothers, and children all working in ways detrimental to themselves. He doesn't say they were hurting God but rather they are hurting themselves. Our actions have no bearing on God but rather only on us. We might make Him sad that we (His creation reject Him) but we can't hurt Him, we can only hurt ourselves. In addition to only hurting ourselves, we look ridiculous and are shameful when choose not to follow His ways.

Enough there now God points something else out. Our giving, we convince ourselves that if we give to God we're OK- whether we obey Him or not. We think we buy, if you will, passes for transgressions. We put something on the "good" side of the scale. All God wants from us is obedience. We try and give Him things that compared to obedience are easier for us. We try and buy our way out of commitment. Even doing this -which is continued disobedience- God reaches out to us. He has sent prophets, He sent Jeremiah. He tells Jeremiah to warn the people but at the same time not expect anyone to listen. Are we faithful and obedient to God even when we realize no actual results (seemingly)?

We expect that if we are obedient to God, then He is required to act, and things will happen the way we see the result. This is not the case. We want our obedience to be rewarded now (in this life). Why? Because it looks good before men. It raises us up, makes us stick out, and is often one of the motivating factors behind obedience (or the appearance of obedience). We can serve God for years, perhaps our entire life and never see a reward. With this possibility in mind what is your obedience level?

Our selfishness, our turning away from God, our insistence on our own ways, even though He is reaching out, will eventually bring about His anger. Not that our actions ever control God, but more like He gets tired of watching us hurt ourselves (or multitudes of others) and decides to act. One of the disobediences in Jeremiah's time was the sacrificing of children -burning of babies. God watched and wooed and warned, and finally acted to stop it. The parallels between that and our modern sophisticated abortion are quite obvious. They sacrificed their children to gods they thought would make their life better or cause them a more enriching life, how many abortions are performed because a child "now" would "ruin" the parents life. Children then and children today truly suffered for their parent's whims and pleasures.

Chapter 8
When God has enough, and acts, then social standing will offer no protection. The rich and the poor will all suffer the same fate, and be powerless to stop it. The gods in Jeremiah's day and the gods in our day are powerless to stop God's will. When he does act, those that survive will wish they had not.

People are prideful and stubborn. Once set on a course of action how many people will admit they personally are wrong. Don't believe we are stubborn -how many times has the same thing been tried with different results expected? Why do we do this? We have talked ourselves into believing our illusions, or blaming the undesired result on someone or something else. We need to align our actions with God's Word. Only then are we guaranteed success by any real standard. Our logic and feelings often lead us to courses of action not in alignment with God's word, and our pride and stubbornness blinds us to this fact.

God listens for repentant hearts, those that realize their way is flawed and seek a better way. He wants us to realize the truth that we don't have all the answers. He wants us to confess it to Him. He does have all the answers by the way. Prior to the Babylon invasion of Judah, God searched and found no repentant hearts, no person with regrets, no person apologizing to Him for going their own way. The people of Judah were in the midst of constant destructive behavior heading backwards (away from God) to madness.

Animals are to be an example for us. They see how God made things and follow that rather than re-order (or vainly try to) what God has done. We on the other hand can get so caught up in self that we forget God and His ways, and what we do know about God.

We are so sophisticated, in our own mind. We get to the point we feel we have figured God out. We claim all the promises He offers in His word, but we ignore the fact that the promises usually come about from obedience to Him. Judah felt it was a nation chosen by God and He would protect them from the Babylonians like He did from the Assyrians. Their leaders told them they would be safe, they were experts, but they didn't know God's word. Many people do not. Often people have opinions on all sorts of issues, but couldn't tell you God's. He asks if that is knowing?

The know it alls will suffer the loss of family and homes. Money is the focus, and truth is twisted and or partially ignored. God is misrepresented, and the country will be in shambles, but their stubbornness and pride will keep them from seeing the truth of their condition and its cause. Bad times come about due to the fallen condition of man, and an ignorance of and turning from God. There is a bottom to which we as people can sink, and God knows that point. The point where we are beyond turning back as a people.

After that point God will confirm it. He will see what is salvageable, if anything. Now the next scripture really jumps out, at this point God will take back what He has given. Pause- think about it. God gave us everything we have that is good, so if He now takes it away, what is left?

Now what? and this will be repeated in the battle of Armageddon, there will be those that realize it is from God, so what will they decide to do? They decide to accept their state and fight- against God's will. That is the ultimate in stubbornness and pride. God's judgment is poured out and they want it their way a different way. In Judah's time as the Babylonian army poured in from the North the people knew they were doomed. They did not even think of repentance and asking for mercy- even then. Their fate is sealed.

Jeremiah has a heart for his people and cries for them, they still cling to their gods, they still hope for rescue without repentance. He sees so clearly what they refuse to, and that is their need for God. He sees their ignorance of the things of God. To watch anyone make a mistake, make a decision that you know is disastrous, to turn away wise counsel in favor of their fixed decision is probably the hardest thing we ever see as a person. None of us are immune either, we all probably wear blinders when it comes to certain courses of action. We are convinced we did the right thing, just as those we watch are convinced they made the right decision. Jeremiah's anguish is understandable. It is only submitted fully to Christ in every facet of our lives and having learned (been taught by Him to hear His voice), that we have any hope of avoiding blinded bad decisions due to our natural tendencies of stubbornness and pride.

Chapter 9
Jeremiah weeps at the casualties of his people. It is so sad to watch someone take the wrong route in life. He longs for being in a remote place, a place where he doesn't have to watch. He is frustrated by their unbelief, to go with his sorrow at their choices.

Whats wrong with Jeremiah's people? They tell lies. Its interesting that this is the starting point. What comes out of our mouths, what we say. If evil comes out of our mouths then our actions will soon follow, and they will advance from one evil to another. Where do we need to go for truth? Trusted family members?- NO, friends? -NO, Neighbors? -NO. People (in general) have told lies for so long they no longer know the truth. They have started out believing a lie (contrary to God's Word, then modified it to grow into more lies as God put the evidence in their lives that they were wrong, and kept going until the truth is completely lacking in their lives. This leads to multitudes of wrongs, and more lies and a refusal to acknowledge God. So to speak truth one needs to be in fellowship with God, ther is no other place to go.

Once a people has denied God in all areas, then God can only melt them down, to show them what they are made of. In crisis a person's true character comes out. In good times a facade is maintained – pleasantries – lies spoken, intentions of deception, a belief that denies God, or denies He will act.

In Jeremiah's time God allowed invasion, loss of real estate -pastures (really its wealth). To dangerous, the wealth removed – to where? Taken by invaders. Towns reduced to rubble – destroyed by invading armies. What will happen in our time with all the budget cuts?

A question is asked- does anyone know why this is happening? Can they see the big picture? Probably a lot of finger pointing but not any bottom line answers. Bottom line- they abandoned God's teachings, refused to listen to Him, refused to live His way. Instead they reasoned out the way they wanted to live based on their selfish desires, and told lies (justified their choices) to the point they believed them.

So God will feed them pig slop, its interesting this shows up in the prodigal son story. Here a nation abandons God, there its a person. He'll send poison, scatter them and death will follow.

We're so good, we don't abandon God's plain teaching. We forgive those who have wronged us, and don't keep a record of it. We faithfully tithe, we don't gossip, we are completely open and honest. After a little thought each and every one of us is reminded of our short comings before God. Repent and learn.

They realized what was happening so they mourned their loss. They were ashamed about their loss of land, homes, children. No lament that they turned away from God anywhere in that chapter, only the loss of possessions. It was all about appearances and not genuine sorrow at the turning away from the Creator of all things.

God's message to them- don't brag about how good they are, or what they can do. Only brag about knowing and understanding God. God who sets things right and fair, ever heard "life's not fair", well God wants it to be. He sets things right and wants us to also. He will personally deal with those so externally focused on the world and what they have or don't have rather than being focused on their relationship with God.

In the last verse there is a reference to performance religion, and appearance of Godliness- an appearance of doing the right things. God will deal with those nations and people personally. Have you realized an error, a misconception of what God wants? Surrender it to Him, confess it, turn from it and let Him show you His way. A better way.

May 24 2009 notes Jeremiah Chapters 4-6

We had a wonderful fellowship of 6 people, God is awesome.

Chapter 4
If we want God we have to really want Him. We have to put Him first, not us. That is difficult enough, and not something easily done. However, if we make that choice, verbalize it, and ask His help, and pay attention to Him. He will help us. Signs that we mean business- we get rid of our sin paraphernalia, and not wander away from Him. We must keep our focus on God.

When we live like this the godless nations and other people will get caught up in the blessing, and God may use it.

Another message- plow your heart- get it ready, ready for new ideas. Receive God. Our wicked ways are fuel for the fire of God's anger.

Now were back to Jeremiah's message specifically to Judah. God has set off an invasion from the north. He allowed it, He decided and was not going to change His mind. He however is warning them. Verse 10 it is said God assured them all would be well, and yet the invasion was starting. Jeremiah warned them, their other prophets told them otherwise (which wasn't from God). God is warning them.

Now the description of the invasion. Jerusalem scrub the evil from your lives. The invasion will sweep down from the north, the people have time. Why did the invasion come about- Judah rebelled against Him. Its not God, but rather the consequences of how they lived. Disaster and more disaster, death and destruction constant. Homes destroyed. Again because of the way we live.

God's comments- we don't realize who He is, we are selfish and do our own thing, its awkward for us to do the things of God. God saw the earth in a pre-Genesis mode. No stars, no men or women, all the towns were ghost towns. This will be the end result of the invasion. God has set this in motion and it will happen.

Even though the whole country will be desolate, God isn't done, its not the end. When bad things happen in our lives, destruction, etc. Its not the end. God is still there and wants relationship with us.

God says the invasion will result in death, its still not over, because God transcends death. Turn to him, and mean it.

Chapter 5
Patrol the streets of Jerusalem, look for a righteous person. See if you can find one. God did this (or rather Abraham asked the number of righteous that would spare the city) before He destroyed Sodom. He did it before He destroyed Jerusalem. He does not act unfairly. He has an eye for the truth, and He tried to instruct them. To no avail. He disciplined, but they refused correction. This was true for the poor as well as the well to do. Neither group accepted correction, the entire society was that way. The people betrayed God over and over, the streets weren't safe, and the invaders are ready to pounce.

God's question- why should He continue bothering with us. Our children don't give God the time of day. He met their needs and they still left for sex gods. Adultery and lust is rampant, God will act, He will take serious measures. His instruction to the invaders- prune the vines back. Their actions were not God ordained. Israel and Judah had betrayed God over and over again, just like us.

They like we spread lies about God. We deny His power, or more likely that He will act. When we consider our position before God, the fact that He doesn't act at everyone of our transgressions is understandable. Our pride fools us into thinking more highly of ourselves than we should. We like the prophets of that day believe He will keep us safe, nothing bad will come. Again a pride elevated assessment of ourselves.

God told them in Jeremiah's time that they would eat their false words about Him. This condition was also widespread to the point where finding "one righteous" would have been difficult. He sent a nation to slay them, their kids and crops. To show the reliability of the idols they had chosen, which was none. Anything other than God will not hold up.

In the middle a nugget- as bad as it will get, God will not make it the end of the world. He still longs for relationship with us from a repentant heart. Just as they left Him for others, He is allowing them to serve others- its what they thought they wanted anyway, and the very nature we all have.

Eyes see, but not really. Ears hear, but not really. Why don't we honor God, why are we not in awe of Him? We take His creation and His protection for granted. He contains the oceans. These people never "say" how can we honor God with our lives. The God who sends rain, the seasons, and keeps everything running smoothly. Its our sins that keep His blessings at a distance.

His people are infiltrated with the wicked- non-God serving. They are out for their own wants and desires. Its true today, the spirit of selfishness can abide in church, elevated assessments due to pride. These wicked have no conscious, don't consider right and wrong. What does it lead to? Prophets teaching lies, and priests assisting them. They say what we want to hear, and we eat it up. Its what we desire, its confirmation (we think of our desires). God asks - what happens when it all falls apart and we have to pick up the pieces?

Chapter 6
Here comes the invasion- He is faithful to warn. He says leave Jerusalem. Do
they? Is it what they want? Is it easy? No. Soon they are surrounded, they didn't listen. Siege ramps built against Jerusalem, a city of brutality and violence, wickedness non-stop (24/7). Violence, rape and bleeding victims. Our biggest industries are medical and prisons- sounds like we are close, and He told Jerusalem at that time, they were on the brink of being wiped out.

Times up, harvest the grapes for judgment, salvage what is left of Israel. God will act (He does act), and He is thorough. Every detail- glory to God. Is anybody listening, a warning is posted- nobody notices. God has been tuned out, they don't want to hear from Him. They are too sophisticated- they have determined their own answers. God's wrath is soon coming.

Everyone seeks dishonest dollars, truth is twisted and doctored. His people are broken - shattered. Are His people embarrassed by the outrage of the way the nation has gone? No they don't know how to blush. That is the finished condition according to the Almighty.

Ask directions to the old road, the tried and true (God's ways)- and take it. Discover the right route for your soul. His people rejected it. We don't want God's way, we want our own, but God's way is the way that brings about fulfillment and doesn't hurt others. God sends people to warn us, but alas we ignore it, a false alarm we claim. So He will let His nation endure hardship and catastrophe. They had contempt for the teachings of God, and rather gave Him things He doesn't want. We ritualize our worship and go through the motions. Roadblocks are on the way, barriers to what we want, and then invasion is on the way. God Himself allowed it, and the people will react in fear, disbelief, they will think God is angry, but He has had enough of their sin.

God gave Jeremiah the task of examining the people. What were they then, what are they today? Thickheaded, hard-nosed, rotten to the core. All of them the entire lot. So the heat will be turned up to refine, and the slag- those that won't allow the evil to be refined out of them will end up on the slag heap. God will put them there.

Welcome to Word Listeners

We have in the past done individual reading and discussing of the Bible. The group was a support group to make us more aware of the need to be in Gods word. We would share what God has shown us in His word when we met. After going through Isaiah for a Wednesday night Bible study, we decided as a group to do a study of Jeremiah. Anywhere you read in the Bible is a wonderful thing, and it will be neat to see how God weaves the insights He gives to each of us together as we study and grow. Jeremiah lived in times much like ours, and here are my notes as we begin our study.

After doing a study of the book of Isaiah I felt strongly led to continue. Our Sunday night Bible study seemed the place to continue. In thinking about it a very strong truth came to mind: We have two choices, we can (1) wait for God's direction, and fit (Him) in our busy lives or (2) we can read and study the Bible and listen to His voice and fit ourselves into His plans. There is merit in waiting on God, the Bible says those that do will mount up with wings like eagles. It also says those that seek God will find Him. Its a good thing to fill your life and time with the things of God.

I started reading Jeremiah and in the light of tough economic times and Israel's rebirth approaching 70 years, one particular section stuck out. I didn't initially write it down but that just made my re-reading more careful as I searched to confirm I did actually see it. Its the section where God tells Jeremiah not to pray for the people of Judah anymore, He has set judgment in motion and is not going to listen. In light of the other things in Jeremiah, God's example of His long suffering and His desire that people come back to Him make our efforts seem trivial.

I wondered if one of the signs of end times would be that God tells His people a similar message. There is a lot of symmetry in the Bible with similar circumstances often repeating. I personally have a burden for the lost, I would not want any to suffer or be separated from God. I also know God will give them additional chances, and He will bring each individual to a point of decision.

He is ready even in the trib period to reach out to those that call to Him.

What an awesome God.

In worldly terms Jeremiah was a failure. He preached a long time to a people that did not want to hear his message, did not turn from their ways, and he watched first hand the death of his nation. His burden for his people often led him to tears. Much like the tears of a parent when a child chooses something that the parent knows will cause him/her hardship and anguish.

In heavenly terms he stayed faithful to God, and spoke what he he was given to speak. Jeremiah realized who God is and he realized that His ways are the best and really the ONLY ways to consider. Even in the midst of decline and the destruction around him.

God is the only answer worth pursuing.


Chapter 1
God knew Jeremiah before he was born, before he was conceived, and yes all the way back to when the world was formed. He had a plan for Jeremiah's life. He has a plan for your life- from way back then. All we have to do is submit to His ways.

God told Jeremiah His plan for him. Why? because Jeremiah sought God, and wasn't selfish enough to try and use that information for worldly advantage. He was submitted to God's authority.

How did he react when told? Jeremiah lacked the confidence that he could do what God asked him. How many of us go to job interviews with all our weaknesses hidden and brimming with confidence. Its funny my life experience has taught me that the people who are most confident they can do a job are often the ones that perform the poorest. Over and over again I've seen it. We've all given the "know it alls" plenty of room so when they fall on their face we won't be their
cushion. I got to be careful here, I also believe that we should be praying for the enlightenment of the "know it alls", and be there to help them up.

Jeremiah wasn't the driven individual, the corporate ladder climber, he rather placed his focus on God and look what happened. God went on to tell Jeremiah that He would be with him wherever he went, and that he would see some fearful circumstances, but not to be afraid.

God placed His Word in Jeremiah's mouth. He has blessed us in the US by putting His Word (Bible) in our hands. He also said every word He gave Jeremiah would come true, and for us that means He said His Word (Bible) would come true.

What an awesome God.

God helped Jeremiah to see His ways. He showed Jeremiah things and made sure the signs were interpreted correctly. He coached Jeremiah, He wants the same type of relationship with you. What did Jeremiah have to do? He had to pay attention and let God do the work. He had to submit to God's ways, ask Him in, then let Him prepare Jeremiah for the purpose He had in mind.

He wants to do the same for us.


Chapter 2
God's message came to Jeremiah. Israel had youthful loyalty initially to God. He brought them through the wilderness experience, and other hard places, He took care of them. But like us over time they drifted away. God protected them and yet they walked away (they left God).

God's question is what did He do to cause them to drift. How did He fail them. We know we have drifted when we don't look for Him actively in our lives. We have drifted when we don't see Him in control of the trials and situations that come along in our lives.

Interestingly, if we look back on our lives, we often clearly see Him and His actions.

He has brought us to a good land, but yet we want to do our own thing and not His. We only consider our plans and not His. When we do this we trade seeing the glory of God for what we want. Our actions indicate our choice of putting what we want above what He wants. Its shocking that this happens in terms of way people talk, but it happens all the time. When we make that choice we essentially trade a drink from a clean cool stream for the stagnate collected water of a leaking cistern. The imagery God uses to illustrate this is incredible. It is also so what we do. We choose to leave God, He never leaves us.

Interestingly (I don't believe in coincidence) I happen to be reading Job at this time as well. Between the two books it is quite clear. Disloyalty to God brings about consequences of our actions. At the same the connect does not work the other way- bad circumstances do not necessarily mean a disloyalty to God.

In chapter two it clearly states that our nature is not one that wants to serve. Rather we want to lead and be in charge, be in control. We want our way.

We use sex and religion - it is equated with selfishness. How often do we think of commitment when thinking of sex. A deep commitment between two people. We are more likely to consider the pleasure aspect, usually from a selfish point of view- wanting our needs met.

God planted us, and wants the best for us. Our turning from Him makes us not attractive to Him. In terms of marriages how do husbands turn away from wives? Other women, work, hobbies? How do wives turn away from husbands? Hide from him due to concern over their looks?

In terms of God we like to deny our condition before Him, the fact that we choose to turn away, that we want our own way rather than His. God points out the evidence in our lives - our tracks walking away from Him. We still won't admit our nature, we blame - we can't help it, we're addicted, the fault isn't ours. In turning away from God we turn to other gods: money, cars, dream houses things we think will solve our problems. We get caught up in it.

The people of Judah were doing the same things we see today, and God was pointing this out to them through Jeremiah, and they wouldn't listen. Just like them we don't acknowledge God unless/until a crisis happens in our life, and then what do we want? We expect Him to to act on our time clock, to do what we think is best and is what we want (still want our way).

A confirmation of our desire to be independent and want to be in charge. God states in Jeremiah the He "wasted" His time trying to train the people He chose. They did not pay attention to Him, and they ignored discipline. Something I'm still thinking about- God is "timeless".

What did He tell Jeremiah in Ch 1 - pay attention while He prepared him. What happens when we don't pay attention- God can't prepare us for His best. He won't make us puppets, He gave us free will. We can try to be in charge, and yet He will warn us. Even if we never give Him a thought.

People feel they have to be in charge to get the most out of life. They want to "live life to the fullest". This leaving God out leads to sin and evil, and denial of God. When God doesn't punish us immediately, we interpret it as "God doesn't mind". Yet another lie that we tell ourselves. Judgment will come, and the things we trust that aren't of God will be of no use.


Chapter 3
God's message to Jeremiah. As people we see our mistakes and poor choices, but we want no consequences. God does things to get our attention. Drought is mentioned, how about financial crisis. God wants us to confess our God defiance. He calls us back - and the really neat thing - He will take us back even though He compares our leaving Him to be like cheating with another on our spouse. He wants us back even after that - even though we seldom would take back a cheating spouse.

Even with that offer, we act as though we act as though we have done nothing wrong. We call to Him as we realize our consequences, and actually blame the consequences of our actions on "His anger with us". A tremendous offer of Love we miss as anger. This makes it easy for us not to repent, and we don't.

We see the actions of others and don't learn- we think we're different. God let Israel do as it wanted in hopes the consequences of poor choices would bring about change. It did not, and we do that - we deny God.

Judah watched what happened to their relatives- they were over run by Assyria, and sent into exile. All because they would not repent. After watching this and considering God's message through Jeremiah, you would think Judah wouldn't make the same choices. It did- they did what Israel did, and worse.

God's message to Israel in exile. Turn back, God loves us and He wants a relationship with us. He calls us back. He picks us out individually, wants a relationship with us as individuals, and will give us good leaders. Interestingly He restores Israel, but not Judah.

He will make the future so good, that people will never long for the "good old days". Jerusalem will be the new ark, and Godless nations will honor God. God has planned for a successful relationship between Him and His creation. It will happen, but He still allows us to disappoint (do our own thing).

We cry over our life, God calls out to us. He can and wants to heal us. We have to give up our popular religion (the one that says what we want to hear, the one that doesn't tell us our true sinful condition). Its a cheap lie. Fraud has picked us clean ( I can't help but think of the financial crisis, and how we have spent our futures- creating such debt), it has swindled us of our future.

Repentance, repentance, submit, and pay attention. Don't be rebels, disobeying God.

Chapter 4