October 25, 2009 -Ezekiel 36:22-38

WordListeners met October 25th, we had four people in attendance. We
had hoped to start a guest leader for this meeting but it didn't happen.
My reading had led me to the end of Ezekiel, so I went over my notes
from 36:22-38. They were well received. Discerning God's will and then
living it out is important. God acts for Himself, and not for us, and
not because things are bad (necessarily).

Here are my notes.

Ezekiel 36
The title in this section is that the mountains of Israel will be blessed. I'm starting at (Vs 22) for now. The first thing it says is that God doesn't act for our sake, but for the sake of His Holy (sacred) name which Israel has profaned (desecrated). No matter how badly we treat each other, and its getting pretty bad, its about God and His name. The more we profane God and His name the more likely we will treat each other badly. For it is God and His Spirit in place that makes life have any goodness it does. The Lord will vindicate His Holy name, by showing Himself Holy in the sight of all.

How? He will start by taking Israel (Jews and Christians?) from the nations, gathering them from all lands and bringing them into their own land (promised to them). A glimpse of this is happening, but its not complete.

He will then cleanse them (us) with water, and put a new spirit and heart in them, which will cause us to walk in His statutes and ordinances. This is sort of what happens when we accept Christ. It goes further to say we'll live in the land and be His people.

He will then bless the crops- no famine, other nations may however experience it.

We will remember our past deeds and loathe ourselves. We will be ashamed of our ways. Having a knowledge of them and being greatful for His better ways. He will not do this for us, but rather to show Himself. On a "day" that He cleanses us from our iniquity - on that day he will cause the cities to be inhabited and waste places rebuilt (sounds like a sudden influx of people).

Formerly desolate land will be cultivated, and all will see it. The land will become like a garden of Eden, and waste, desolate and ruined cities will be inhabited and fortified. Now when the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem the towns were made desolate, so that has happened, but it could happen again.

This will be a sign for the nations around that He is the Lord. A witness for the world- sounds like what some call a "prosperity gospel" in that the Lord will bless His people with crops and abundance while others (that don't follow Him- by their own choice) may experience famine. He spoke it, it will happen.

Israel will then increase like a flock, the waste cities will be filled with flocks of men.

Ezekiel 37
The Lord took him in spirit to a valley of dry bones. It is interesting that in the message edition Assyria and Babylon are said to have eaten Israel, and spit out bones. In Jeremiah 7:32-8:2 and in Jeremiah 50:17 the references to the destruction of Israel and then Judah are clear.

At the valley he is told to prophesy over the bones, and when he does the bones come together and flesh becomes attached. These bodies are not breathing until he is told to prophecy breath into them. Then they are fully alive.

The next section explains what we just read. The bones are the "whole" house of Israel. Does this include the Christians? Christians do become part of the house of Israel. There is also the statement that God will make graves open, and He will bring them into the land of Israel. The opening of the graves, and resurrection of the dead will show those resurrected and others that He is Lord.

At this point I'm reminded of the NT story of the resurrection of Lazarus. Jesus heard he was sick, and could have gone to heal him, but instead waited until he had died to act. In the story there was greater awe over a resurrection than there would have been over a healing.

I think the breath in the bones that reformed bodies is the spirit of God. God will put His spirit in them and place them in their land (Israel). The Lord does this and people know He is God. Since this is somewhat unbelievable we are reminded that what the Lord speaks He will do, it will happen.

I think this is more than Cyrus releasing the exiles from Babylon, and sending them home. God certainly brought that about as well, but there are end times - after many years of prophecy going on as well.

Verse 15 two sticks. Judah and Ephraim joined together one nation. One people after Babylonian exile, but not a nation until 1948. Was 1948 an act of God? an act of man trying to force God's hand? God made it happen, or He allowed it. God is sovereign. God will restore Israel and David will be their king, that description hasn't happened yet. The people will also follow His statutes and ordinances. Looking those up they run from Leviticus 18 to the end.

These are listed after sin and atonement offerings. Hebrews 9:23 states Jesus was the perfect sin offering allowing us back into right relationship with God. The following of His statutes by His restored people is mentioned plenty. These statutes involve sacrifices. Ezekiel describes a temple that hasn't been built yet (clearly, and may be the one of the 1000 year reign), but it has tables where animal sacrifices are prepared. This really bothered me except for the following:

1. Our giving of money or tithing could be considered a sacrifice. It is an active sign of our acknowledgement of who God is. In that time (Ezekiel's) animals were capital (money). Since we still give tithes and offerings, after Jesus, it is plausible that some sacrifices will happen in the millenial reign. As described by Ezekiel in Chapter 40 and beyond.

2. In Leviticus the sin offering and atonement is first, then the following of the statutes and ordinances. Some of the sacrifices were clearly to support our fellow men, the priests, the poor, etc. In the 1000 year reign we will very gladly serve each other putting the needs of others first.

I've been meaning to make a list of all the sacrifices and offerings required in the OT.

Back to Ezekiel, Israel will live in the land given to Jacob with Jesus as Prince forever. God will place them there (after period in heaven?, or instantly in the process of restoring His people?) He will multiply them, and set His sanctuary in their midst (described later). God will dwell with them (in Israel) and nations will know God is Lord when His sanctuary is in their midst forever. Jerusalem a light to the world.

Now if and I underline if this happens just prior to the trib period, imagine Jesus on the throne, His spirit poured out, the dead resurrected and brought forth to live there also.
Would city defenses be necessary?
Would the nation seem to be at peace and seemingly defenseless?

Ezekiel 38
Gog a nation from the North, God will use them to demonstrate He is God.

Verse 8 is interesting- Israel is a land restored from the sword. Can be interpreted a couple ways. restored from the sword = war torn (1948), restored from the sword = a land where wars don't happen anymore, the people truly follow God, worshipping and relying on Him.

The invaders coming- are they more likely to attack an armed Israel or one that is following the Lord at peace? Kind of hard to imagine, but the power of God is greater than we can imagine. Large numbers are indicated, interestingly it is our new military tactic- overwhelm the enemy. This can mean an attack expecting resistance. The statement that people are living securely- probably has never described current Israel.

The enemy will come like a cloud against a peaceable people living without bars or gates. Back in 36 the waste cities of Israel will be inhabited and fortified, yet without bars and gates? Their intent isn't stated to be anihilation but rather to plunder and spoil. Back in Chapter 36 the Lord states in vs 29 and 30 that when Israel is restored He will not allow the disgrace of famine. When the Lord turned His back to Jerusalem in Jeremiah famine soon followed. If restoring Israel and making the statement He is God then famine to the north could occur, while Israel has plenty, making them a clear plunder and spoil target.

It will be a day of plunder when Israel is living securely, and Gog knows it (vs 14)- peace treaty?

This invasion has been prophesied for many years by the prophets of Israel (vs 17)

Gog will be used to sanctify or set apart God. He will set Himself apart and call attention to Himself through their act of invasion and His response.

His response is said to be earthquakes in Israel (worldwide?- all the people of the earth will feel it). Mountains flattened. The invaders will turn on each other in panic, and fire and brimstone will rain down.

This will magnify God, set Him apart, and make Him known in the sight of many nations.

Oct 18, 2009 Jeremiah 50-52

Tonight we had 5 for Wordlisteners, and finished the last three chapters
of Jeremiah (50-52). It is so good to read and reflect on God's word,
that He has preserved for us in this time. The comparison that Babylon
was beyond fixing and the state of the world today we wondered about.

Next week we have a guest speaker to lead us in a study- I hope. If not
then we'll probably discuss our individual readings over the course of
the upcoming week.

My notes are as follows:

Chapter 50
Chapter 50 and 51 were written seven years before the fall of Jerusalem. They were sent as a booklet to the exiles in Babylon to be read to them publicly. The exile in Babylon lasted 70 years, so these chapters were written around 70 years before it happened.

Babylon will fall, God proclaims it, and what He says happens. A nation from the north will reduce Babylon's cities to rubble, complete destruction- no people, no animals, no breath.

The people of Israel and Judah will seek God, and ask directions to Zion bound in covenant eternal they will never forget. Has this happened yet? Babylon is mostly desolate, but not completely, Israel doesn't talk very much about their covenant with God. I think it partially fulfilled after the initial fall of Babylon, but maybe not completely? I have a resource that has as part of the notes on Ezekiel that Israel has not had an idolatry problem since the fall of Jerusalem and exile.

Israel was lost sheep, wandering aimlessly, everyone took advantage of them. Fair game, they walked out on God and were allowed to be persecuted.

For now they are told to leave Babylon (when they see a host of nations destroying it), a host of nations will destroy it. Why? The nation of Babylon turned to pride. Its mother wouldn't be proud. They have been reduced to a trash heap. Babylon sinned against the Lord.

Israel is a scattered flock, started by Assyria (Israel) and finished by Nebuchadnezzar (Judah). Babylon is doomed like Assyria, but Israel will be brought home. There will be a day when Israel will not be found to have any guilt. Has this happened yet?

Merathaim is southern Babylon, and Pekod is eastern Babylon- the destruction will be complete.

Babylon went from being a tool of God for judgment, to being an object of His wrath- they chose to take on God (became prideful). God allowed them to take the city and burn the Temple, and then later punishes them for destroying the Temple. Their attitude changed in the process. Pride crept in. The Lord will rescue Israel (which He sent into exile), and destroy Babylon.

Their gods are make believe gods, and Babylon will join Sodom and Gommorrah as cities done away with.

People pouring out of the north attacking, fear and trembling by the Babylonians. Then the Lord like a lion from the jungles of the Jordan will pounce. The young and vulnerable will be dragged off, others will watch helpless.

Chapter 51
Still more hurricane Persia will clean up Babylon- taking all that is worth anything. The destruction will be complete. Israel and Judah were not widowed, God is still committed to them event though THEY filled their land with sin.

God is paying back Babylon, so run (when it happens). Babylon was used by God to punish others and now there is no fix for them- no balm.

Babylon is past fixing. Will there be a time our present situation will be past fixing?

God has set things right for Judah, lets share what He has done. Here come the Medes, Babylon had plenty of money and wealth but God was the lifeline, and has now been cut. Instead invading soldiers. The God of Jacob is real, He made the world and crafted the cosmos, he sends the rain. Those that worship other gods will look foolish. They will be shown as powerless. He pays attention to Israel.

Babylon was God's hammer, but now they will punished for all the evil they did in Zion. God is the enemy Babylon has to worry about, He will crush them until only gravel remains. Other problems and situations seem real and significant to us, but only God matters. No hanging gardens.

Many nations are called to perform the holy work of Babylon's destruction. Destruction as holy work - the will of God is holy work. Man's desires have no good purpose unless they align with God's.

The land trembles over God's plans for Babylon. Spoken around 70 years before it happened. God's plan to make Babylon a moonscape. The soldiers of Babylon- once fearsome will cower and run. City after city is taken and burned. God said this would happen.

Nebuchadnezzar chewed up God's people. Zion was brutalized, Jerusalem had blood spilled. God is taking revenge, Babylon is a dump, a sewer. They will drink themselves drunk (with pride) and then God will haul these lions to the slaughterhouse.

Babylon is finished, God said it. Ending in chaos and destruction. The wonders destroyed, run, God is torching the place. The no-gods of Babylon will be put into place. Heaven and earth, angels and people will throw a victory party.

Babylon falling is compensation for war dead in Israel. Babylonians killed for all their killing. David didn't kill Saul when he had the chance, even though he was to be king. Even though the Babylonians killed seemingly for God judgment, they didn't follow God's word.

Israel was taunted and abused. Humiliated, and God knew their feelings. He is bringing an end to Babylon in retribution, and nothing can stop it. God knows (or would) how it feels to be humiliated, taunted and abused by man.

God is the God of fairness, He evens things out. Babylon will sleep and never wake up. The harder you work at the empty life (things not of God), the less you are. Nothing comes from ambition apart from God but ashes. Babylon toiled for nothing because they didn't do it for God.

These books (two chapters) were sent to Babylon, publicly read (that God would overthrow it), and thrown into the Euphrates. Seraiah did this in the 4th year of Zedekiah's reign. Jerusalem fell in year 11 (seven years later). The exile for some was going on, for others it would begin later after the fall of Jerusalem.

Chapter 52
The final chapter of Jeremiah, a summary of events surrounding the fall and destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Zedekiah was appointed king by Nebuchadnezzar when he took the first set of exiles, he later rebelled against Nebuchadnezzar causing the siege and destruction to occur. He was considered an evil king.

For a review of kings:
Starting with Hezekiah- a good king

Then Manasseh- an evil king, he is referenced as the reason Judah is punished, the people followed him as he practiced terrible things, including burning of children. 2 Chr 33 says he was taken with a hook in his nose to Assyria where he repented and God accepted it allowing him to return to Jerusalem. I guess the man repented, but the practices he started and allowed continued.

Then Amon – evil

Then Josiah – well behaved- started reforms

Then Jehoahaz (all sons of their father to this point) Jehoahaz was taken to Egypt by the Egyptian king and his brother was established as king by the Egyptians.

Jehoiakim (Jehoahaz' brother) was evil- Nebuchadnezzar came he became Nebuchadnezzar's puppet. Later revolted

Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim's -son 2 Chr 36:8) became the next king – established by Babylonians (him or his father?)- Nebuchadnezzar later ordered him brought to Babylon as well along with Temple valuables. He surrendered to the Babylonians, and was taken prisoner and he was taken to Babylon with the "best of Judah" (rapture like- protected against destruction of the city?), but later released. In Jer 36:27-31 the promise of God to take away the throne of David from any son of Jehoiakim- Jehoiachin ruled three months- then not king, but in the lineage of Jesus. 2Chr 36:9-10. or over eight years (2 kings 24:12). Definitely some overlap between father and son somehow.

Matthew lists Josiah and Jehoiachin in the lineage of Jesus. Matt 1:10 Jehoiakim is the king that burned the scroll of Jeremiah.

Zedekiah (Jehoiachin's uncle – another son of Josiah Jer 27:1) was the next king- established by the Babylonians. He was evil, and rebelled against Babylon. This caused Nebuchadnezzar to come for the second time to Jerusalem. This is where it was destroyed completely and people killed indiscriminately.

The destruction of Jerusalem came about because God turned His back to them- its all He had to do. We think bad things happen, but God still protects us and desires us to come to our senses. We definitely don't deserve His protection. When He turns His back to us, really bad things happen as in the case of Jerusalem.

The final siege of Jerusalem lasted 19 months. Zedekiah tried to escape, was captured, watched his sons be killed, then blinded and taken to exile dying in prison. Remember God offered to prevent this if he would surrender, it was his choice. Zedekiah's advisors were also caught and killed in cold blood (Jer 24:27), there is no mention that God told Nebuchadnezzar to do this, and were they really a threat? Was this the beginning of the pride? It probably contributed.

When the temple was destroyed, all the bronze items were dismantled and taken to Babylon, the walls of the city were knocked down too.

Three different groups were taken into exile. A wave with Jehoiachin, a wave immediately after city destruction (taken over), and another about 5 years later when it was ultimately destroyed.

The kings were reviewed again because Jehoiachin who surrendered and was part of the first wave was later released (after 37 years) and got preferential treatment. He is also the one listed in the lineage of Jesus. After all that God was still looking after His people and keeping His promises.

10/11/2009 WordListeners Jeremiah 45-49

Tonight for Wordlisteners we had 5 people. We discussed Jeremiah
Chapter 45-49. In Chapter 47 we hear that the usefulness of the
Philistines to God is no more so they will be destroyed. It is God's
desire that none should perish, but they also have to recognize God on
God's terms. God is also about justice and fairness, and He knows our
hearts.

In Chapter 48 the destruction of Moab is foretold. Verse 32 states that
God will cry with them, but He is sovereign.

It is stated at the end of many chapters that a day will come when God
will put things right.

In Chapter 49 verse 12 states that sometimes innocents will drink the
cup of God's wrath, and that He will make things right. Seemingly a
scary verse, it is comforting when thought about.

The notes I had are as follows:

Chapter 45
This chapter is back in time Chronologically, but may fits here from the prophetic aspect. These are bad times, God is piling on the pain , its one thing after another- which sounds like our day to day existence. There seems to be no end in sight.

But God says - what He has built He is about to wreck, what He has planted, He is about to rip up, and He is doing this all over the earth. Forget about making big plans for ourselves- we should focus on His plans, His will, His work. He also promises to protect us through His changes.

Chapter 46
A message for godless nations. The two world powers at this time were Egypt and Babylon. This was after the fall of the Assyrians. There was a Battle at Carchemish and the Babylonians won establishing them as the dominant power. Judah saw the coming the Babylonian threat and aligned with Egypt instead of relying on God. The first part of this chapter is a message to the Egyptians. They prepare for battle, and look impressive, but the soldiers have no resolve- panic breaks out, they run. Egypt with its impressive army including alliances (or hired soldiers) with Cush (Ethiopia), Put and Lud. But God is in control He will decide the outcomes. The Egyptians will look for help, cures, but they won't find any that work, only anguish.

Babylon had Jerusalem under siege and pulled back briefly to go fight the Egyptians. This message came to Jeremiah during that time (before the fall of Jerusalem). Egypt had hired soldiers, and looked impressive, they took the pay when it was easy, but when the real battle starts they won't be in it. They will run. The Babylonians will overrun them easily and level the country.

Then God says that Pharaoh will be turned over to Nebuchadnezzar. This didn't happen at this battle, but later after the fall of Jerusalem when the exiles fled to Egypt for "safety". True safety is only found in God.

God will save Jacob from that far country (the exiles in Babylon- at least in this instance). God will protect His people - depend on it. He isn't finished with them yet. The godless nations around them have to be finished off. They are only being fairly punished.

Chapter 47
The Philistines were in the land of Israel, and a constant concern during a lot of the kingdom of Israel and Judah. Goliath was one for instance. This chapter talks about the complete destruction of them. Its God's judgment on them, He never arbitrarily judges nations into extinction, its probably the result that they did not (for a long period of time) respond to His calls to come to Him. We don't have a record of God attempting to bring the Philistines (as a people) into His kingdom, and I believe its stated that He will use them in some way to help develop Israel.

One of the great misconceptions of the Bible that comes from not reading it fully and thoroughly is that God seems to arbitrarily decide who He will keep up and who He will destroy. The earth proclaims His majesty, His power and His glory, and His desire is that none should perish. He offers relationship with Himself to all, but some choose to reject that offer. In their choice to reject Him, He may use those people to help build the faith of those that do accept Him. There are plenty of examples of that. But the usefulness of those that reject Him seem to have limits, and the Philistines had reached that limit, so God's will for them was for them to be no more.

God is about doing justice, and taking care of each other. He is fair- He is probably the only one that is fair completely. In reading this chapter often the death of small "innocent" children come to mind as the invaders sweep in from the north (Babylonians). God is a god that insists on fairness, He knows the entire story, and He makes things fair even when we seemingly can't see how. The obvious difference is that we too often focus only on this life and not eternity. That is where His focus is. What a marvelous God.

Chapter 48
This is a prophecy concerning Moab. Lot had two daughters and both took advantage of their drunk father by sleeping with him. Moab was the son of one, and Ammon (ch 49) the son of the other. These two sons became nations. Moab had helped Nebuchadnezzar against Judah, siding with Judah's enemy, and was later destroyed by Babylon. This chapter predicts that. Cities leveled and of course the pain and suffering associated with that. Chemosh the god the primary god they worshiped (with child sacrifice) will be "hauled off" (Message) - an idol evidently. All the cities will be destroyed, and the land will become desolate. Why? Moab has always taken it easy, never worked, never faced trouble. They didn't serve God. They didn't listen to God, and since it is His world, He grew tired of it and acted. When men don't serve Him, they elevate themselves to the place of god, and then convince themselves they are god rather than God. He acts to correct and train.

Moab had made cruel jokes about Israel, and when they were caught in bad company. They became prideful (thinking they didn't need God). God doesn't want to do it, and is not happy about it (verse 32), yet He is sovereign, and they are disobedient. verse 42 says it best- there will be nothing left of Moab because of his defiant arrogance against God.

God will after destruction of Moab set a day that He will put things right in Moab, but for now judgment.

Chapter 49
Ammon - Lot's other daughter's son that also became a nation. The Ammonites took land from the Israelis. God is saying Ammon will be destroyed (Rabbah is the chief city), and then the Israelis can get their land back - God said it- its going to happen. Their god milcom (malcom, molech- children were sacrificed to it) will be hauled off. All because of their pride, they thought they were safe and couldn't be touched. Yet after God will make things right with Ammon.

Edom (from Jacob's brother Esau) a prophecy that God was going to bring doom to them (why?- because they don't practice justice, practicing justice and fairness comes about from knowing God. If you don't know God how can you be just? How can you be fair? Your motives are selfish and self serving. Yes there are people who don't acknowledge God that He works through anyway because He is God and can do that.

The accounts of Edom will be settled, they rejoiced at the fall of Jerusalem. We should not rejoice over other's misfortunes- even if it God's response to their lack of obedience to Him. Rather we should pray that they turn to Him and that He administers mercy.

Verse 12 is interesting - its about people suffering from God's wrath that don't deserve it, and here is confirmation that it happens. I tend to think of little children who haven't reached an age of decision, but there are others. God's judgment often affects their lives, and God is also the God of fairness, so how do we resolve that? I think its clear that justice and fairness don't necessarily apply to this life that we often cling to, but that God will make things fair in eternity. What comfort. If we are charged with making things fair in this life, then we better wrap everyone in bubble wrap, for it can't be done by human means. Yet over and over that is the claim made for this or that new law.

Edom will be charred ruins, dropped to last place among nations. Why? because of their pride. The helpless will be dragged off, and their cries will be heard, but Edom will be powerless. The prideful nation- powerless.

A message for Damascus, the once famous city will fall apart.

Kedar and Hazor will be attacked by Nebuchadnezzar and he will prevail.

Against Elam, their country will be destroyed making them refugees, and they will live in constant fear. Since Elam is Persia and now Iran, is this fear what is driving them? Yet Elam will be "made right" by God.