Nov. 22, 2009 Ezekiel 6 and 7

For Wordlisteners on Nov 22, 2009 we had 12 people. It was our guest
leader's last night. The discussions were lively. He asked how we
would react to a message from God of gloom and doom, and there was a
lively discussion around that. Fear is generally not a good long term
motivator. The time around 9/11 was remembered, people came to church
for a while, and then stopped. The Christian life was eloquently put
forth as a good way to live, that most people cannot deny.

The people of the time we talked about were most stubborn. Yet somehow
God was about to show them that He is God. He also warned them. My
thoughts on Hurricane Katrina pervade my notes below, and that topic did
not come up. I left them in there anyway.

Our next meeting will be December 13th, 2009 unless the Lord comes
before then.

Ezekiel 6

Mountain idols are smashed, later in Ezekiel, the mountains will be blessed. Time spent making and worshiping idols was time spent being selfish and not serving God. There are consequences for doing our own thing or what we think is best, or not paying attention to God.

All the wasted effort put forth into serving something other than God, coupled with all the pain and misery caused (to others). Pagan shrines are mentioned, not service to God. It takes a while to have a shrine. God will make it clear to these people He is God.

Was hurricane Katrina sent by God? I see mixed signals.
First if it was from God He would have warned us. Was there a report about the weakness of the dike system? Were we not able to see it coming across the gulf? What is the reason for building a substantial part of a city near a coast, and below sea level? Was pride at work? God has a history of warning before impending doom, giving people a chance to repent and turn. He has a history of warning people whether they were obedient and listening to the warnings or not. Judah had impending doom, Jeremiah, Isaiah and Ezekiel were warnings before it happened, and to all people.

Second if God had sent it we would have learned, He has a unique way of getting our attention and training us. Did we learn from New Orleans? Evidently not we rebuilt it, if anything our pride was strengthened, our resolve that we can have a city below sea level.

Third we see death and destruction as a negative, a bad thing, and therefore are hesitant to assign God as responsible. He certainly allowed the hurricane. He certainly is capable of making things right. He is after all about justice and fairness.

God is warning these people of what is about to happen. In Jeremiah 44 there is a passage, after the destruction of Jerusalem, after the people were warned not to go to Egypt but did anyway, and after Jeremiah warned them (15 years ahead of time) that destruction was coming. They said the reason their life was not going well was because they were not sacrificing as they should to the queen of heaven. These people were stubbornly selfish.

God will let a few escape, but it is interesting that He says He is devastated by their betrayals. God is hurt by their voracious lust for self gratification. During this God will show them what really matters. In the middle of Katrina, I'm sure helpless feelings abounded and prayers were offered up, and the focus was largely on God. All the cars, houses, locations, and possessions suddenly didn't matter.

My next focus is difficult to explain. There are consequences for not following God, for not being obedient. We want blessings without giving obedience or sacrificing in the way He asks (giving ourselves back to Him). We naturally want things our way. Yet to be God's people we have to deny self, its for the greater good. This statement seemingly implies that the Lord is a "kill joy", and yet it is our selfish acts of doing what we want and wanting our way that are the "kill joy" of others. Then we step up and defend our actions and beliefs as being good, but our actions if not God directed can hurt others. Although we will justify and convince ourselves, when we are the victim of injustice we will even more staunchly defend our case for our actions. In other words we are never ready to be on the receiving end of the injustices we cause. We would reject having to endure pain and suffering to satisfy the pleasure of others. God isn't a kill joy, it is His way (and only His) that allow all the opportunity to live fulfilled lives in peace and harmony.

Ezekiel 7

End-time, the verdict on the way people live. They will have to suffer for their selfish practices and choices. Anything done that doesn't glorify God is a selfish practice. He has to this point looked the other way, but has decided to be patient no longer. It will be so bad for them that they will know its from God (without mixed signals). It will be of a magnitude that man isn't capable of. Hurricane Katrina certainly wasn't of man in those terms.

Ignoring God - being selfish leads to obscenities and others getting hurt. Then adding pride by thinking we have always gotten away with it, or that we know best. We are so smart we feel we choose to rely on our own knowledge rather than what He says. We want to go our own direction rather than where He leads.

A similarity between then and now, so striking. An economic crisis will hit Jerusalem. Its easy for us to see if it is surrounded by enemies. Don't we have one? They like we are looking for an economic fix, but it is their sin that has bankrupt them. Their choices. Sound familiar. Anarchy will then break out it is said- no one marches out for battle when the trumpet sounds. Real unemployment is approaching 1 in 5 in our time and we hear the rumblings of desperation. The fields are nearing "white", people are starting to lose their treasures and idols. They are becoming more aware of their sins. Some aren't, like the Jews in Egypt, they will continue to push for what doesn't work and clearly avoid the truth and continue to deny God. Money becomes (or will) worthless in Jerusalem. If you are hungry and there is no food then it doesn't matter your riches. Dave Ramsay said that a case of bottled water during the weeks after Katrina was worth quite a lot, and gold meant nothing- interesting how those things come to mind. Judah it says tripped over wealth and fell into sin. They became proud of their wealth, and it took their focus off of God. God will show them that the things they feel are important but truly aren't will be trod upon. He will let His temple be defiled because of the people's disobedience to Him. He will deal with their pride.

Catastrophe after catastrophe, disaster after disaster, then the people will seek answers, but nobody will have any. The prophets (God's messengers) no answers. The priests- religious leaders- no answers. The king - political leaders- no answers. The warnings came before, His back is now turned, but mercy is available to those that genuinely seek it. Just like during the time during Katrina in the midst of the storm, when all the technology of man could not help a single soul, God answered those who called to Him, just maybe not in the ways we would have wanted Him to. Glory to God.

Nov 15, 2009 Ezekiel 3:22-5

For Word Listeners on Nov 15th we had 15 people in attendance. Our
Guest speaker Drew continued leading us through Ezekiel. He had a
handout, and we learned about "sign-acts". I made some notes from the
meeting, and then included my notes from the reading of the scripture.

We look forward to next week with Drew.

God's message - Ezekiel a watchman for Israel. He is to relay the
warnings he hears from God to them. This is the charge given to all
prophets. God emphasizes the importance of obedience in following His
call. If Ezekiel warns and they ignore then the consequences are on
those that ignored the warning. if Ezekiel doesn't share the warning,
then he is responsible for the consequences. This is a truly fearful
passage as to the responsibility we have to share what God has given us.
What if it turns out badly? Its a faith opportunity, how big is God
compared to our circumstances? Is He able to deliver us?- we say it all
the time. God's warnings are a matter of life and death. Its true He
wants relationship with all people, but He has the standard of Holiness.

God wanted to further speak to him so He sent him out to the plain (away from distractions? - prayer closet- of sorts?). The spirit entered him (Holy Spirit) Go home and remain silent - tied up at home. He'll see the wrong people are doing but will not be able to speak until the time is ripe. God will at that time free his tongue to share the message. What marvelous comfort for those of us who struggle with whether we should warn people of their poor choices or not. He (God) will free our tongue to warn people when the time is right, and He wants us to. Its not something of our own strength but God working through us (Holy Spirit). In the meantime our life of obedience is always a witness to the things of God. The more fearful question may be - Would your actions warrant a conviction in a court to the accusation of being a Christian? Does God now really make a difference in your life, are you His people set apart or distinct from those who are not?

God puts His message out there (through His obedient servants), the people out there can listen or not whichever they like- sounds like free will.

Ezekiel 4

"Sign-acts" act out what God is saying. In this chapter Ezekiel provides a visual of the siege of Jerusalem. Using a brick to represent Jerusalem. There is strong evidence that some people are "visual" learners, and here we are 2700 years ago God providing to those people something other than words to bring about His message. God already knew what we let people "study".

Now we have a Jesus glimpse, Ezekiel is told to lie on his side and take the sins of the people on himself. He is to bear the sin of Israel for 390 days and the sins of Judah - on his other side for 40 days. He will have a minimal diet and minimal water (just like those in Judah and Israel will experience in exile). He is on his side one day for each year of sin. To survive they will have to eat unclean food, relationship and obedience to God is the important point, not foods consumed. In Hebrews 4:14-16 Paul says our High Priest (Jesus) knows of our sufferings, He has been there. Ezekiel also has experienced the pain. God knows our struggles.

During the siege there will be famine, God warned them. Its up to them to listen or not.

Ezekiel 5

Another action (visual or sign act) acting out what will happen after the siege. The people of Jerusalem are represented by Ezekiel's hair which he was asked to cut off. One third of them will be burned up in the city (people), another third will be killed by the sword (chopped up), the last third will be thrown to the wind (escape) but will be chased by the sword. God said it, it will happen, and it did, He has standards and we make choices, and our choices will have consequences in His creation. A few hairs are protected and thrown in the fire, this fire will spread to the whole family of Israel.

Why would God do this? Isn't He a God of Love, who doesn't keep records of wrongs? He doesn't keep a record of wrongs for those who repent and allow Him to change them. If however you choose to do your own thing His patience may end. There is no contradiction here. We ourselves are more ready to forgive those who realize they have hurt us, rather than those that don't care that they did, but then again we are made in the image of God. God explains why He is letting Jerusalem be destroyed.

Jerusalem was placed by God to be an example for the world. His people also were to be an example, but with their free will they chose not to be. They rebelled against Him and ignored Him (or tried to). So He will use them as an example to the world of what happens when the creation denies the creator. His desire was for their good, but His plan is completed, they were an example for the world. Their choices and trying to survive will lead to cannibalism, something they never considered to be the result of their actions I'm sure. What are the results of your actions and choices if they don't include God? Do you choose to ignore Him, and then expect Him to protect you from the consequences of your unrepentant choices?

The hair was the visual, now a plain word explanation. A third of Jerusalem's people will die of famine and disease, a third will be killed by the invaders outside the city, and a third will escape but be on the run the rest of their lives. God is jealous and denying Him is really putting something else before Him. He will allow His Temple to be destroyed, Jerusalem will be that example for the world, and even though it is in what we might consider a bad way, it will be clear that God sent it.

Nov 8, 2009 Ezekiel 1-3:23, and a Jeremiah resource link

Word Listeners met on Nov 8th and 15th, I'll send in notes from the 15th
soon.

One additional thing I had gotten a while back was a link to some
teachings on Jeremiah. I've been meaning to share it, but haven't until
now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Cdqb31ty4&feature=channel

The posting for Nov. 8, 2009 Wordlisteners Ezekiel 1-3:23 is as follows:

We had 18 for Wordlisteners tonight, and we eagerly awaited for our
guest leader to lead us through Ezekiel. He gave us some background on
Ezekiel and we read and discussed Chs 1-3:21. I made notes and typed
them up, they are as follows:

Ezekiel 1
Ezekiel was of the priestly tradition. He was part of the early exile
of Jews from Judah to Babylon. In reading his book (which God has kept
for us) the following general themes can be seen.
Judgment
Syncretism- mixed worship practices pagan and Jewish
Restoration
Temple worship- the presence of God
Theodicy- how do we know God is with us. How do we experience Him.

In this chapter Ezekiel has a vision of God. Its awesome, maybe scary.
In thinking about how God appeared throughout the Bible, there is
usually great fear associated by those coming into the presence of God.
Our leader contrasted this with Elijah's still small voice. The vision
represents a mobile God, a God that was going with His people into
exile.

One comment was about the four faces on the vision and four facets of
God (we usually think of Him as a Trinity).

God is everywhere.

Ezekiel 2

A very short chapter about Ezekiel's call by God, Israel had been
selfish - worshiping other God's. God is still loyal to His chosen
people despite their disobedience. He is to go to them and speak God's
word- the work of a prophet- whether the people listen or not.

Ezekiel 3

God handed him a scroll of lamentations and doom and told him to eat it.
God's word literally being ingested. It shows the importance of reading
and study. In eating the Word it was sweet in his mouth. Seemingly
unpleasantness when associated with God is pleasant.

He is warned that the people of Israel are stubborn. God will make him
more stubborn in order to get His message out regardless of the
circumstances. God is far more long-suffering than we are as evidenced
by how long He kept Jerusalem from being destroyed. He is also more
stubborn.

He sends Ezekiel to the people of Israel, and he waits seven days before
God gives him a message. 7, the number of creation, the number of
mourning and for this people renewal. The number of completeness.

We stopped at verse 21.

October 25, 2009 -Ezekiel 36:22-38

WordListeners met October 25th, we had four people in attendance. We
had hoped to start a guest leader for this meeting but it didn't happen.
My reading had led me to the end of Ezekiel, so I went over my notes
from 36:22-38. They were well received. Discerning God's will and then
living it out is important. God acts for Himself, and not for us, and
not because things are bad (necessarily).

Here are my notes.

Ezekiel 36
The title in this section is that the mountains of Israel will be blessed. I'm starting at (Vs 22) for now. The first thing it says is that God doesn't act for our sake, but for the sake of His Holy (sacred) name which Israel has profaned (desecrated). No matter how badly we treat each other, and its getting pretty bad, its about God and His name. The more we profane God and His name the more likely we will treat each other badly. For it is God and His Spirit in place that makes life have any goodness it does. The Lord will vindicate His Holy name, by showing Himself Holy in the sight of all.

How? He will start by taking Israel (Jews and Christians?) from the nations, gathering them from all lands and bringing them into their own land (promised to them). A glimpse of this is happening, but its not complete.

He will then cleanse them (us) with water, and put a new spirit and heart in them, which will cause us to walk in His statutes and ordinances. This is sort of what happens when we accept Christ. It goes further to say we'll live in the land and be His people.

He will then bless the crops- no famine, other nations may however experience it.

We will remember our past deeds and loathe ourselves. We will be ashamed of our ways. Having a knowledge of them and being greatful for His better ways. He will not do this for us, but rather to show Himself. On a "day" that He cleanses us from our iniquity - on that day he will cause the cities to be inhabited and waste places rebuilt (sounds like a sudden influx of people).

Formerly desolate land will be cultivated, and all will see it. The land will become like a garden of Eden, and waste, desolate and ruined cities will be inhabited and fortified. Now when the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem the towns were made desolate, so that has happened, but it could happen again.

This will be a sign for the nations around that He is the Lord. A witness for the world- sounds like what some call a "prosperity gospel" in that the Lord will bless His people with crops and abundance while others (that don't follow Him- by their own choice) may experience famine. He spoke it, it will happen.

Israel will then increase like a flock, the waste cities will be filled with flocks of men.

Ezekiel 37
The Lord took him in spirit to a valley of dry bones. It is interesting that in the message edition Assyria and Babylon are said to have eaten Israel, and spit out bones. In Jeremiah 7:32-8:2 and in Jeremiah 50:17 the references to the destruction of Israel and then Judah are clear.

At the valley he is told to prophesy over the bones, and when he does the bones come together and flesh becomes attached. These bodies are not breathing until he is told to prophecy breath into them. Then they are fully alive.

The next section explains what we just read. The bones are the "whole" house of Israel. Does this include the Christians? Christians do become part of the house of Israel. There is also the statement that God will make graves open, and He will bring them into the land of Israel. The opening of the graves, and resurrection of the dead will show those resurrected and others that He is Lord.

At this point I'm reminded of the NT story of the resurrection of Lazarus. Jesus heard he was sick, and could have gone to heal him, but instead waited until he had died to act. In the story there was greater awe over a resurrection than there would have been over a healing.

I think the breath in the bones that reformed bodies is the spirit of God. God will put His spirit in them and place them in their land (Israel). The Lord does this and people know He is God. Since this is somewhat unbelievable we are reminded that what the Lord speaks He will do, it will happen.

I think this is more than Cyrus releasing the exiles from Babylon, and sending them home. God certainly brought that about as well, but there are end times - after many years of prophecy going on as well.

Verse 15 two sticks. Judah and Ephraim joined together one nation. One people after Babylonian exile, but not a nation until 1948. Was 1948 an act of God? an act of man trying to force God's hand? God made it happen, or He allowed it. God is sovereign. God will restore Israel and David will be their king, that description hasn't happened yet. The people will also follow His statutes and ordinances. Looking those up they run from Leviticus 18 to the end.

These are listed after sin and atonement offerings. Hebrews 9:23 states Jesus was the perfect sin offering allowing us back into right relationship with God. The following of His statutes by His restored people is mentioned plenty. These statutes involve sacrifices. Ezekiel describes a temple that hasn't been built yet (clearly, and may be the one of the 1000 year reign), but it has tables where animal sacrifices are prepared. This really bothered me except for the following:

1. Our giving of money or tithing could be considered a sacrifice. It is an active sign of our acknowledgement of who God is. In that time (Ezekiel's) animals were capital (money). Since we still give tithes and offerings, after Jesus, it is plausible that some sacrifices will happen in the millenial reign. As described by Ezekiel in Chapter 40 and beyond.

2. In Leviticus the sin offering and atonement is first, then the following of the statutes and ordinances. Some of the sacrifices were clearly to support our fellow men, the priests, the poor, etc. In the 1000 year reign we will very gladly serve each other putting the needs of others first.

I've been meaning to make a list of all the sacrifices and offerings required in the OT.

Back to Ezekiel, Israel will live in the land given to Jacob with Jesus as Prince forever. God will place them there (after period in heaven?, or instantly in the process of restoring His people?) He will multiply them, and set His sanctuary in their midst (described later). God will dwell with them (in Israel) and nations will know God is Lord when His sanctuary is in their midst forever. Jerusalem a light to the world.

Now if and I underline if this happens just prior to the trib period, imagine Jesus on the throne, His spirit poured out, the dead resurrected and brought forth to live there also.
Would city defenses be necessary?
Would the nation seem to be at peace and seemingly defenseless?

Ezekiel 38
Gog a nation from the North, God will use them to demonstrate He is God.

Verse 8 is interesting- Israel is a land restored from the sword. Can be interpreted a couple ways. restored from the sword = war torn (1948), restored from the sword = a land where wars don't happen anymore, the people truly follow God, worshipping and relying on Him.

The invaders coming- are they more likely to attack an armed Israel or one that is following the Lord at peace? Kind of hard to imagine, but the power of God is greater than we can imagine. Large numbers are indicated, interestingly it is our new military tactic- overwhelm the enemy. This can mean an attack expecting resistance. The statement that people are living securely- probably has never described current Israel.

The enemy will come like a cloud against a peaceable people living without bars or gates. Back in 36 the waste cities of Israel will be inhabited and fortified, yet without bars and gates? Their intent isn't stated to be anihilation but rather to plunder and spoil. Back in Chapter 36 the Lord states in vs 29 and 30 that when Israel is restored He will not allow the disgrace of famine. When the Lord turned His back to Jerusalem in Jeremiah famine soon followed. If restoring Israel and making the statement He is God then famine to the north could occur, while Israel has plenty, making them a clear plunder and spoil target.

It will be a day of plunder when Israel is living securely, and Gog knows it (vs 14)- peace treaty?

This invasion has been prophesied for many years by the prophets of Israel (vs 17)

Gog will be used to sanctify or set apart God. He will set Himself apart and call attention to Himself through their act of invasion and His response.

His response is said to be earthquakes in Israel (worldwide?- all the people of the earth will feel it). Mountains flattened. The invaders will turn on each other in panic, and fire and brimstone will rain down.

This will magnify God, set Him apart, and make Him known in the sight of many nations.

Oct 18, 2009 Jeremiah 50-52

Tonight we had 5 for Wordlisteners, and finished the last three chapters
of Jeremiah (50-52). It is so good to read and reflect on God's word,
that He has preserved for us in this time. The comparison that Babylon
was beyond fixing and the state of the world today we wondered about.

Next week we have a guest speaker to lead us in a study- I hope. If not
then we'll probably discuss our individual readings over the course of
the upcoming week.

My notes are as follows:

Chapter 50
Chapter 50 and 51 were written seven years before the fall of Jerusalem. They were sent as a booklet to the exiles in Babylon to be read to them publicly. The exile in Babylon lasted 70 years, so these chapters were written around 70 years before it happened.

Babylon will fall, God proclaims it, and what He says happens. A nation from the north will reduce Babylon's cities to rubble, complete destruction- no people, no animals, no breath.

The people of Israel and Judah will seek God, and ask directions to Zion bound in covenant eternal they will never forget. Has this happened yet? Babylon is mostly desolate, but not completely, Israel doesn't talk very much about their covenant with God. I think it partially fulfilled after the initial fall of Babylon, but maybe not completely? I have a resource that has as part of the notes on Ezekiel that Israel has not had an idolatry problem since the fall of Jerusalem and exile.

Israel was lost sheep, wandering aimlessly, everyone took advantage of them. Fair game, they walked out on God and were allowed to be persecuted.

For now they are told to leave Babylon (when they see a host of nations destroying it), a host of nations will destroy it. Why? The nation of Babylon turned to pride. Its mother wouldn't be proud. They have been reduced to a trash heap. Babylon sinned against the Lord.

Israel is a scattered flock, started by Assyria (Israel) and finished by Nebuchadnezzar (Judah). Babylon is doomed like Assyria, but Israel will be brought home. There will be a day when Israel will not be found to have any guilt. Has this happened yet?

Merathaim is southern Babylon, and Pekod is eastern Babylon- the destruction will be complete.

Babylon went from being a tool of God for judgment, to being an object of His wrath- they chose to take on God (became prideful). God allowed them to take the city and burn the Temple, and then later punishes them for destroying the Temple. Their attitude changed in the process. Pride crept in. The Lord will rescue Israel (which He sent into exile), and destroy Babylon.

Their gods are make believe gods, and Babylon will join Sodom and Gommorrah as cities done away with.

People pouring out of the north attacking, fear and trembling by the Babylonians. Then the Lord like a lion from the jungles of the Jordan will pounce. The young and vulnerable will be dragged off, others will watch helpless.

Chapter 51
Still more hurricane Persia will clean up Babylon- taking all that is worth anything. The destruction will be complete. Israel and Judah were not widowed, God is still committed to them event though THEY filled their land with sin.

God is paying back Babylon, so run (when it happens). Babylon was used by God to punish others and now there is no fix for them- no balm.

Babylon is past fixing. Will there be a time our present situation will be past fixing?

God has set things right for Judah, lets share what He has done. Here come the Medes, Babylon had plenty of money and wealth but God was the lifeline, and has now been cut. Instead invading soldiers. The God of Jacob is real, He made the world and crafted the cosmos, he sends the rain. Those that worship other gods will look foolish. They will be shown as powerless. He pays attention to Israel.

Babylon was God's hammer, but now they will punished for all the evil they did in Zion. God is the enemy Babylon has to worry about, He will crush them until only gravel remains. Other problems and situations seem real and significant to us, but only God matters. No hanging gardens.

Many nations are called to perform the holy work of Babylon's destruction. Destruction as holy work - the will of God is holy work. Man's desires have no good purpose unless they align with God's.

The land trembles over God's plans for Babylon. Spoken around 70 years before it happened. God's plan to make Babylon a moonscape. The soldiers of Babylon- once fearsome will cower and run. City after city is taken and burned. God said this would happen.

Nebuchadnezzar chewed up God's people. Zion was brutalized, Jerusalem had blood spilled. God is taking revenge, Babylon is a dump, a sewer. They will drink themselves drunk (with pride) and then God will haul these lions to the slaughterhouse.

Babylon is finished, God said it. Ending in chaos and destruction. The wonders destroyed, run, God is torching the place. The no-gods of Babylon will be put into place. Heaven and earth, angels and people will throw a victory party.

Babylon falling is compensation for war dead in Israel. Babylonians killed for all their killing. David didn't kill Saul when he had the chance, even though he was to be king. Even though the Babylonians killed seemingly for God judgment, they didn't follow God's word.

Israel was taunted and abused. Humiliated, and God knew their feelings. He is bringing an end to Babylon in retribution, and nothing can stop it. God knows (or would) how it feels to be humiliated, taunted and abused by man.

God is the God of fairness, He evens things out. Babylon will sleep and never wake up. The harder you work at the empty life (things not of God), the less you are. Nothing comes from ambition apart from God but ashes. Babylon toiled for nothing because they didn't do it for God.

These books (two chapters) were sent to Babylon, publicly read (that God would overthrow it), and thrown into the Euphrates. Seraiah did this in the 4th year of Zedekiah's reign. Jerusalem fell in year 11 (seven years later). The exile for some was going on, for others it would begin later after the fall of Jerusalem.

Chapter 52
The final chapter of Jeremiah, a summary of events surrounding the fall and destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Zedekiah was appointed king by Nebuchadnezzar when he took the first set of exiles, he later rebelled against Nebuchadnezzar causing the siege and destruction to occur. He was considered an evil king.

For a review of kings:
Starting with Hezekiah- a good king

Then Manasseh- an evil king, he is referenced as the reason Judah is punished, the people followed him as he practiced terrible things, including burning of children. 2 Chr 33 says he was taken with a hook in his nose to Assyria where he repented and God accepted it allowing him to return to Jerusalem. I guess the man repented, but the practices he started and allowed continued.

Then Amon – evil

Then Josiah – well behaved- started reforms

Then Jehoahaz (all sons of their father to this point) Jehoahaz was taken to Egypt by the Egyptian king and his brother was established as king by the Egyptians.

Jehoiakim (Jehoahaz' brother) was evil- Nebuchadnezzar came he became Nebuchadnezzar's puppet. Later revolted

Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim's -son 2 Chr 36:8) became the next king – established by Babylonians (him or his father?)- Nebuchadnezzar later ordered him brought to Babylon as well along with Temple valuables. He surrendered to the Babylonians, and was taken prisoner and he was taken to Babylon with the "best of Judah" (rapture like- protected against destruction of the city?), but later released. In Jer 36:27-31 the promise of God to take away the throne of David from any son of Jehoiakim- Jehoiachin ruled three months- then not king, but in the lineage of Jesus. 2Chr 36:9-10. or over eight years (2 kings 24:12). Definitely some overlap between father and son somehow.

Matthew lists Josiah and Jehoiachin in the lineage of Jesus. Matt 1:10 Jehoiakim is the king that burned the scroll of Jeremiah.

Zedekiah (Jehoiachin's uncle – another son of Josiah Jer 27:1) was the next king- established by the Babylonians. He was evil, and rebelled against Babylon. This caused Nebuchadnezzar to come for the second time to Jerusalem. This is where it was destroyed completely and people killed indiscriminately.

The destruction of Jerusalem came about because God turned His back to them- its all He had to do. We think bad things happen, but God still protects us and desires us to come to our senses. We definitely don't deserve His protection. When He turns His back to us, really bad things happen as in the case of Jerusalem.

The final siege of Jerusalem lasted 19 months. Zedekiah tried to escape, was captured, watched his sons be killed, then blinded and taken to exile dying in prison. Remember God offered to prevent this if he would surrender, it was his choice. Zedekiah's advisors were also caught and killed in cold blood (Jer 24:27), there is no mention that God told Nebuchadnezzar to do this, and were they really a threat? Was this the beginning of the pride? It probably contributed.

When the temple was destroyed, all the bronze items were dismantled and taken to Babylon, the walls of the city were knocked down too.

Three different groups were taken into exile. A wave with Jehoiachin, a wave immediately after city destruction (taken over), and another about 5 years later when it was ultimately destroyed.

The kings were reviewed again because Jehoiachin who surrendered and was part of the first wave was later released (after 37 years) and got preferential treatment. He is also the one listed in the lineage of Jesus. After all that God was still looking after His people and keeping His promises.

10/11/2009 WordListeners Jeremiah 45-49

Tonight for Wordlisteners we had 5 people. We discussed Jeremiah
Chapter 45-49. In Chapter 47 we hear that the usefulness of the
Philistines to God is no more so they will be destroyed. It is God's
desire that none should perish, but they also have to recognize God on
God's terms. God is also about justice and fairness, and He knows our
hearts.

In Chapter 48 the destruction of Moab is foretold. Verse 32 states that
God will cry with them, but He is sovereign.

It is stated at the end of many chapters that a day will come when God
will put things right.

In Chapter 49 verse 12 states that sometimes innocents will drink the
cup of God's wrath, and that He will make things right. Seemingly a
scary verse, it is comforting when thought about.

The notes I had are as follows:

Chapter 45
This chapter is back in time Chronologically, but may fits here from the prophetic aspect. These are bad times, God is piling on the pain , its one thing after another- which sounds like our day to day existence. There seems to be no end in sight.

But God says - what He has built He is about to wreck, what He has planted, He is about to rip up, and He is doing this all over the earth. Forget about making big plans for ourselves- we should focus on His plans, His will, His work. He also promises to protect us through His changes.

Chapter 46
A message for godless nations. The two world powers at this time were Egypt and Babylon. This was after the fall of the Assyrians. There was a Battle at Carchemish and the Babylonians won establishing them as the dominant power. Judah saw the coming the Babylonian threat and aligned with Egypt instead of relying on God. The first part of this chapter is a message to the Egyptians. They prepare for battle, and look impressive, but the soldiers have no resolve- panic breaks out, they run. Egypt with its impressive army including alliances (or hired soldiers) with Cush (Ethiopia), Put and Lud. But God is in control He will decide the outcomes. The Egyptians will look for help, cures, but they won't find any that work, only anguish.

Babylon had Jerusalem under siege and pulled back briefly to go fight the Egyptians. This message came to Jeremiah during that time (before the fall of Jerusalem). Egypt had hired soldiers, and looked impressive, they took the pay when it was easy, but when the real battle starts they won't be in it. They will run. The Babylonians will overrun them easily and level the country.

Then God says that Pharaoh will be turned over to Nebuchadnezzar. This didn't happen at this battle, but later after the fall of Jerusalem when the exiles fled to Egypt for "safety". True safety is only found in God.

God will save Jacob from that far country (the exiles in Babylon- at least in this instance). God will protect His people - depend on it. He isn't finished with them yet. The godless nations around them have to be finished off. They are only being fairly punished.

Chapter 47
The Philistines were in the land of Israel, and a constant concern during a lot of the kingdom of Israel and Judah. Goliath was one for instance. This chapter talks about the complete destruction of them. Its God's judgment on them, He never arbitrarily judges nations into extinction, its probably the result that they did not (for a long period of time) respond to His calls to come to Him. We don't have a record of God attempting to bring the Philistines (as a people) into His kingdom, and I believe its stated that He will use them in some way to help develop Israel.

One of the great misconceptions of the Bible that comes from not reading it fully and thoroughly is that God seems to arbitrarily decide who He will keep up and who He will destroy. The earth proclaims His majesty, His power and His glory, and His desire is that none should perish. He offers relationship with Himself to all, but some choose to reject that offer. In their choice to reject Him, He may use those people to help build the faith of those that do accept Him. There are plenty of examples of that. But the usefulness of those that reject Him seem to have limits, and the Philistines had reached that limit, so God's will for them was for them to be no more.

God is about doing justice, and taking care of each other. He is fair- He is probably the only one that is fair completely. In reading this chapter often the death of small "innocent" children come to mind as the invaders sweep in from the north (Babylonians). God is a god that insists on fairness, He knows the entire story, and He makes things fair even when we seemingly can't see how. The obvious difference is that we too often focus only on this life and not eternity. That is where His focus is. What a marvelous God.

Chapter 48
This is a prophecy concerning Moab. Lot had two daughters and both took advantage of their drunk father by sleeping with him. Moab was the son of one, and Ammon (ch 49) the son of the other. These two sons became nations. Moab had helped Nebuchadnezzar against Judah, siding with Judah's enemy, and was later destroyed by Babylon. This chapter predicts that. Cities leveled and of course the pain and suffering associated with that. Chemosh the god the primary god they worshiped (with child sacrifice) will be "hauled off" (Message) - an idol evidently. All the cities will be destroyed, and the land will become desolate. Why? Moab has always taken it easy, never worked, never faced trouble. They didn't serve God. They didn't listen to God, and since it is His world, He grew tired of it and acted. When men don't serve Him, they elevate themselves to the place of god, and then convince themselves they are god rather than God. He acts to correct and train.

Moab had made cruel jokes about Israel, and when they were caught in bad company. They became prideful (thinking they didn't need God). God doesn't want to do it, and is not happy about it (verse 32), yet He is sovereign, and they are disobedient. verse 42 says it best- there will be nothing left of Moab because of his defiant arrogance against God.

God will after destruction of Moab set a day that He will put things right in Moab, but for now judgment.

Chapter 49
Ammon - Lot's other daughter's son that also became a nation. The Ammonites took land from the Israelis. God is saying Ammon will be destroyed (Rabbah is the chief city), and then the Israelis can get their land back - God said it- its going to happen. Their god milcom (malcom, molech- children were sacrificed to it) will be hauled off. All because of their pride, they thought they were safe and couldn't be touched. Yet after God will make things right with Ammon.

Edom (from Jacob's brother Esau) a prophecy that God was going to bring doom to them (why?- because they don't practice justice, practicing justice and fairness comes about from knowing God. If you don't know God how can you be just? How can you be fair? Your motives are selfish and self serving. Yes there are people who don't acknowledge God that He works through anyway because He is God and can do that.

The accounts of Edom will be settled, they rejoiced at the fall of Jerusalem. We should not rejoice over other's misfortunes- even if it God's response to their lack of obedience to Him. Rather we should pray that they turn to Him and that He administers mercy.

Verse 12 is interesting - its about people suffering from God's wrath that don't deserve it, and here is confirmation that it happens. I tend to think of little children who haven't reached an age of decision, but there are others. God's judgment often affects their lives, and God is also the God of fairness, so how do we resolve that? I think its clear that justice and fairness don't necessarily apply to this life that we often cling to, but that God will make things fair in eternity. What comfort. If we are charged with making things fair in this life, then we better wrap everyone in bubble wrap, for it can't be done by human means. Yet over and over that is the claim made for this or that new law.

Edom will be charred ruins, dropped to last place among nations. Why? because of their pride. The helpless will be dragged off, and their cries will be heard, but Edom will be powerless. The prideful nation- powerless.

A message for Damascus, the once famous city will fall apart.

Kedar and Hazor will be attacked by Nebuchadnezzar and he will prevail.

Against Elam, their country will be destroyed making them refugees, and they will live in constant fear. Since Elam is Persia and now Iran, is this fear what is driving them? Yet Elam will be "made right" by God.

Jeremiah 39-44 Sept 27, 2009

For Wordlisteners after a three week break it was good to meet again.
We will be off next week again for Praise and Worship, but look forward
to meeting again October 11.

For tonight's meeting we had 6 people in attendance and we covered
Jeremiah 39-44. I asked the members to pray for God's direction in
terms of what to cover next.

The lay speaking training class (our last two weeks - why we didn't
meet) had several suggestions for small groups. We seek His guidance.

My notes are as follows, the discussion was lively. Its amazing how
similar we often are to those people written about.

Chapter 39
The final siege of Jerusalem was 18 months. Stuck in a city for 18 months. Zedekiah tried to escape and was caught, God said he would be. His sons and nobles were killed - based on his decision not to surrender (God offered to protect him Jer 38:17), and then he was blinded (because he could not see?). The royal palace, the Temple, the homes, the walls were leveled- totally destroyed. The people were rounded up and taken off to exile. The homeless - those who had nothing (I guess before the city was burned) he left. These were the people who knew how to survive and didn't surrender when their house was burned. This destruction of Jerusalem is also told in Jer 52, II Kings 25, and II Chronicles 36.

Jeremiah is protected, somehow Nebuchadnezzar made provisions for him, and now he got the choice to go to Babylon or stay. He was put in the care of Gedaliah son of Ahikam. Ahikam was the man that stood up for Jeremiah at his trial - when they wanted to kill him for his message (Jer 26:24), and the fact that one man stood up prevented his death. Jeremiah decided to remain in Judah.

Before the fall- Jeremiah imprisoned, Zedekiah free. God acted- Jeremiah free Zedekiah a prisoner. Jeremiah saved by his faithfulness (all those years), Zedekiah destroyed through fear. Jeremiah had concern for the people and got respect, Zedekiah was concerned for himself and got contempt.

Ebed-Melek the Ethiopian that petitioned the king that it wasn't right when Jeremiah was put in the well, was protected during the siege and overthrow (Jer 38:8). He would see it but be protected- he would walk out of the city safe.

So two reminders of those that stood up for God's messenger that were taken care of- either directly or their family.

Chapter 40
The Babylonians knew Jeremiah had been a prisoner, he had predicted their victory, so they set him free. The even acknowledged God as being the author of their victory. Jeremiah was given the option of going to Babylon or staying in Judah- the choice was his. In Babylon the exiles would have hated him, he would have been a constant reminder that they should have listened to him, and it would have given credence to the charge that Jeremiah was a traitor. He chose instead to stay with those left in Judah. It showed he wasn't a traitor and he knew from his message God may not have been done dealing with those left yet.
So Jeremiah went to Gedaliah the son of Ahikam that stood up for him Jer 26:24.

Gedaliah accepted everyone, and encouraged them to live in peace and go about the daily task of making a living off the land. He would intercede for them as needed with the Babylonians. People out in the countryside hiding came out and he accepted them as well.

Gedaliah gets warned that someone is out to kill him. The warning doesn't come from Jeremiah (maybe God wanted this to happen). The follow up is an offer to kill the would be assassin "no one (man) would know"- but God would.

Did Gedaliah do the right thing? Killing the assassin and hiding it from other's knowledge would have preserved his "now life" but risked his infinity "eternal life". Instead he risked death now and as it turns out would be killed.

He also refused to listen and accused the informer of spreading a false rumor. Is somebody a criminal before they act? If you talk about it, and it is your intention -then you probably are, but is that reason enough to perform a criminal act though to prevent it?

Chapter 41
As was foretold by Johanan to Gedaliah (Jer 40) came to pass. Ishmael a son of Nethaniah came to Mizpah and killed Gedaliah. He and his men ambushed them while eating. Ishmael was of royal blood, but why would he do such a thing? Clearly the Babylonians were in control, and Gedaliah was trying to establish peaceable lives. Maybe he saw him as a representative of the Babylonians and struck back for that reason.

The next day pilgrims to Jerusalem come along. Shaved heads, ripped clothing and gashes on their bodies indicate the distraught nature of someone making a pilgrimage to the Temple in Jerusalem only to find it burned and destroyed (Jer 39). They too are murdered (all but 10) by Ishmael and his men. So now he has struck against God's people as well. He dumped their bodies on top of Gedaliah's and his men to hide them, and conceal his deeds.

He then takes the people of Mizpah and heads for Ammon. Johanan (who warned Gedaliah originally) pursues him and gets the hostages back but Ishmael escapes. Johanan and the people fear retribution from the Babylonians and decide to head for Egypt. Stopping near Bethlehem.

Chapter 42
Johanan and the people feared Babylonian wrath for the murder of Gedaliah - which they weren't responsible for. God knew, but man did not (at least not the Babylonians).

They came to Jeremiah to ask God's advice and guidance for them, and Jeremiah said he would. This sounds like a great first step in solving a dilemma. Then they swear to do whatever God tells them to do through Jeremiah- another good thing to do. its as it should be. What would be our comfort level in doing that? Their words were right but their actions are like ours. Wouldn't we probably want to wait for the message, and then decide?

They waited 10 days for the answer to their question. How many days are we willing to wait? Our culture wants answers "now".

The message "don't fear Babylon"- Man (which they did, and why they came to Jeremiah). God is on their side (He is on everyone's side that will listen to Him, and He longs to bring those that won't listen to Himself). God will make the king of Babylon show them mercy.

Jeremiah continues, showing that God is knowledgeable of their thought processes. Don't refuse to obey God by seeking what looks better, easier, more pleasing. Deciding your own way will cause your fears to catch up to you. Going to Egypt will result in being exposed to war, famine and death.

God was very plain- don't go to Egypt. They swore they would listen to His message and yet when it was received did not. They decide to go to the "wonderful country" and they will die there. The remnant still does not listen to God. They still won't obey. So innocent people run from feared punishment, thus making themselves appear guilty.

Chapter 43
Jeremiah relayed God's message to them. God told them what they were thinking so how could Jeremiah know this? They called Jeremiah's message from God a lie and that Jeremiah was a liar. One theory is they had a plan and wanted God's confirmation. In not confirming it, and wanting to really do their own thing, they had no choice but to deny the message Jeremiah gave. They truly weren't interested in listening to God unless He agreed with their plan. They didn't compare Jeremiah's previous messages against history. Baruch is given credit for influencing Jeremiah's message and somehow setting a trap for them.

So they gather all the refugees, including Baruch and Jeremiah, and go to Egypt to Tahpanhes. If you didn't like their messages, and thought they were against you, why would you take them to Egypt? They listened to their fear, but also heard truth. They acted out of fear, but didn't want to lose the truth. Maybe it was clear to them that God had protected Jeremiah all these years, so if he was with them there was protection- Jeremiah's presence didn't protect Gedaliah - which was why they were running?

At Tahpanhes Jeremiah is given a message to bury some stones and proclaim the Nebuchadnezzar would come and set up his throne on those stones. The message Jeremiah gave them in Judah would be true. War, famine and death would come to Egypt. Historically there is evidence this happened.

Chapter 44
Well Jeremiah ended up in Egypt with the rest of those left from Judah. They had gone there to escape hardship even though God warned them they would experience it if they went. Approximately 12 years before Nebuchadnezzar conquers Egypt, Jeremiah give this message to those Judeans in Egypt, and probably several times after God brought it to their minds- longing for them to choose Him.

God reminded them that the destruction they saw in Jerusalem was the result of their disobedience. They worshiped gods that weren't gods, and they were warned by the true God. Who unleashed destruction and that is why they are in Egypt. This is a recent past history lesson.

Now God turns to their current actions, they didn't listen to God's advice to stay in Judah, and they are continuing the same behaviors that caused judgment to come to Judah. God asks if they have forgotten, and states that there is no remorse. Nobody is listening to God.

So here is God's decree- if you won't turn and repent, listen to Me, and have no other gods before Me then this is what will happen. They will die in Egypt of war or famine. Only a few fugitives will make it back.

The people's response to Jeremiah's message - we're not listening, we're going to do what we think is right. It seems to us it should work, and we're going to ignore or find something else to blame for the times it did not. We have our own explanation as to why Jerusalem was destroyed and it was not because of God. Seems like a combination of not realizing how big God is (ignorance? or denial?) If you deny God, you can talk yourself into some degree of control in your own life- of course it is a lie. When things go awry you just tell yourself another lie- you get more used to it as you do it. Ignorance? or denial?

Jeremiah answered and told them that they broke the covenant. God had kept up His end of the covenant for generations even though He was not being revered or respected. He finally had enough.

God said "keep your vows to the other gods", in rejecting the true God, they will seal their destruction as well. They will become targets of doom. God will bring this doom to them by giving Pharaoh over to his enemy (Nebuchadnezzar) just like God gave Zedekiah over. This message is given 12 years before it happened, not while it was happening and at a time when Egypt looked like a "wonderful country".

August 30, 2009 Jeremiah 34-38

There were 5 people for Wordlisteners tonight, and they for the most
part listened to the reading. There were some wonderful insights
though. We read and discussed 5 chapters, my notes are below. It was so
wonderful to be in God's word, and we read the section where God
authorizes Jeremiah to record His words- giving us the book of Jeremiah
these many years later.

Our next meeting will be September 27, 2009. Praise and worship is next
week and lay speaker training will be the following two weeks after
that.

Chapter 34
God's message to Jeremiah when Nebuchadnezzar was mounting an all out attack against Jerusalem. God tells the Israelites- His chosen, the outcome of the current activities and events. Jerusalem will fall, it will be burned and the king won't escape. Its easy to let our fears and "experience" tell us the outcomes of current activities and events in our lives, but shouldn't we be asking God?

The king (Zedekiah) is re-assured he won't be killed, but rather cared for until death. This message came when only two fortified cities and Jerusalem remained. Would a skeptic not claim that the outcome was obvious at that point? Why then did God give this message? Why did they need the message? I can only figure that it ties in with the Assyrian invasion years earlier. The people thought the end had come but God intervened- slaying that army. They had seen it and had memory of it. Seeing God act (miraculously and repeatedly) is not enough to turn people from their sin in repentance and toward God. Example Red sea. Our selfishness and our wants are put first, and we are so ready to ignore and deny God. We may acknowledge God acted in the past, but we want Him to do something for us today.

Another message is mentioned, a special one for Zedekiah. Zedekiah freed the slaves in Jerusalem that were Hebrews. The covenant said that one Jew couldn't own another as a slave. In Leviticus God stated that owning a fellow Jew as a slave was not permitted. He freed them from being slaves when He delivered them from Egypt. They were to be treated as hired men and freed at the year of Jubilee. This covenant to free the slaves by Zedekiah was reneged on. God's message reminded them of His intentions , and stated that they had totally ignored God's desire. He then states Zedekiah had done well to obey, but then broke it which made a mockery of God.

God's message is pretty plain and He is consistent in informing as to what He wants, and when we act like "we know better" we are mocking God. Here comes the consequences- God is going to set the people of the city free -to be killed. To become a horror. There was a covenant ceremony- gone back on. One has got to be careful of making covenants, and making promises, it is so very important to consider the cost- God wants us to honor our word, even if it costs us. Or not even make a vow if we aren't going to fulfill it. Deut 23:21-23, Psalm 15:5.

Chapter 35
Now we go back in time chronologically to see an example of what it looks like to keep a vow or covenant. The Recabite community are invited, and Jeremiah is told to offer them wine- God tells Jeremiah to offer them wine. The Recabites entire community comes, but they don't drink wine, so they refused to take it.

Then we find out that their ancestor commanded them not to drink wine, nor settle down in houses. So these people live in tents, don't own property, don't garden, and don't drink. They furthermore have followed this ancestral command.

When Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar came along they went to Jerusalem to live seeking safety. God wants to show His people in Jerusalem their ways. The Recabites followed their ancestor's command, but God's people wouldn't even pay Him any attention. He tried over and over to get their attention, sending prophets, wanting them to follow His ways so He could bless them but they wouldn't listen.

So destruction is coming to His people in Jerusalem because of their stubbornness. Meanwhile the faithfulness of the Recabites will be rewarded in that one of them will always be in God's service.

I think sometimes we are inclined to do something we shouldn't because "everyone else is". We then get caught up in "if they can get away with it I should be able to also". When honestly looked at, it is probably never the case that "all are doing it", There is an example somewhere, if we just honestly open our eyes to look for it.

Chapter 36
Jeremiah gets a message from God telling him to write down all that he had told him. Here is the divine authorization recorded for us by God to write this book. If God told him to write it, doesn't it make sense that God would bring the things back to Jeremiah's mind as he wrote that were important? In recording the message, it can be taken in all at once, and maybe the people of Judah will turn from their bad lives. Up until it was written there was only a message from Jeremiah on occasion, but never a comprehensive record. The concepts of God need to be heard repeatedly (or read) to be learned, hearing them once - considering all the opposing views we get bombarded with may not be enough.

This also gets Baruch involved, he is a scribe. Jeremiah dictated, Baruch recorded, God led. Or better yet God led, Jeremiah dictated, and Baruch wrote.

We get another hint as to why the written word was authorized, Jeremiah was banned from the temple, so he could not go in. Baruch however could go in and read the words he had written. A man of God, Jeremiah, not allowed in the house of God. Its a pretty good indicator when people have rejected God to the point His own messenger isn't even allowed to speak in His house. I don't know the details of the "hate crimes bill", but it seems we may be on the verge of something similar in our time. Jeremiah instructed Baruch as to when to go (day of fasting) so that the most people would hear the message. The hope was that the message would bring about prayer. Baruch did as he was asked.

A government leader was there and heard the message and was alarmed (as pointed out to me). Evidently they hadn't paid much if any attention to Jeremiah's verbal messages up to this point, but could read hear the message read to them now and see the truth of it- as it happened. This prompted a government meeting of the kings advisors. Baruch was sent for and asked to read the scroll to them, and he was asked about the source and said that Jeremiah had dictated it. He was told to hide, but they kept the scroll. It was then taken to the king (Jehoiakim) and read to him. As the scroll was read the king would cut it off and burn it in the fire. The entire scroll was read, and consequently burned without the slightest twinge of conscience. Scripture can be the very vehicle that God uses to speak to us. Others can read/hear the scripture and it have absolutely no effect them. In modern times the Bible has never been more accessible, and the need for God's truth has never been so great, it just doesn't seem to affect some folks. Some of the kings advisors evidently had conscience, they advised him not to burn the scroll, but he ignored them. The king wanted Jeremiah and Baruch arrested but God had hidden them away.

Jeremiah was told by God that the scroll was burned and needed to be replaced. God sees to it His word is protected and He has done that for us- praise God we can read his word today. So it is re-written. A message also goes to Jehoiakim- no descendant will be on the throne of David (and Jehoiakim is not in the lineage of Jesus recorded in Matthew). Jehoiachin his son is, but he was the king taken into exile (when the throne of David was lost) and replaced. This exile happened when the temple treasures were taken. Zedekiah was appointed king. The scroll was re-written- we have it today.

Chapter 37
The puppet king Zedekiah- placed by Nebuchadnezzar, his officials, or the people left in Jerusalem paid no attention to the message of God given by Jeremiah- officially. King Zedekiah did seem to realize Jeremiah's position, and did send to him a request for prayer. We're back to a time when Jeremiah was not imprisoned.

Zedekiah had rebelled against Babylon, and the Babylonians (Chaldeans) had come back to fight against him. This would explain his prayer request. Egypt's army was marching to "help" him in the fight, he hoped. The same thing happened in Isaiah's time when the Assyrians threatened, the king hoped for Egyptian help. God's message back- the Egyptians will turn around and the Babylonians will come back, and the city will be destroyed (burned to the ground). It was God's will Jerusalem would be destroyed- so it would happen.

During the time the Chaldeans pulled back from Jerusalem (because they heard the Egyptians were coming), Jeremiah left Jerusalem to take care of some personal business in Benjamin (seems like this fits his field purchase). He was called a deserter. All those years of preaching to a people who didn't listen to him, and yet he was loyal to them.

Jeremiah was beaten for his alleged desertion, and placed in a cistern turned into an underground prison cell. There he stayed until called by king Zedekiah.

The king wanted to know if Jeremiah had a message from God, which he repeated the one he had stated earlier- it had not changed. The king would be turned over to the king of Babylon. Jeremiah then asked the king what crime he had committed, and reminded the king through questioning that the "friends" or prophets the king had been listening to were in error. Babylon had attacked even though they said they would not. He then requested not to be sent back to the dungeon, and the king relented by sending him to the courtyard of the palace guards where he got a loaf of bread a day until the bread in the city ran out.

Chapter 38
The siege of Jerusalem is occurring, the last one before it fell. Jeremiah's message (from God) -surrender to the Babylonians and live, or stay in the town and die. Jerusalem is going to fall.

This message obviously hurt the morale of those defending Jerusalem, and Jeremiah was accused of not putting the interests of the people first. God's sure word wasn't what they wanted to hear even in desperate times, and they proclaimed that word as not being in their best interest. This is an opposition to God. His sure Word is always in our best interest, but there are circumstances (like this one) that may cause us to question.

Since he wasn't saying what they wanted to hear, some of the kings officials decided Jeremiah should be killed, and the king went along with their desire (was he weak?). They took him and threw him in the well (cistern) in the courtyard. There was only mud at the bottom. Somebody stood up for Jeremiah again before the king. He was prevented from being killed earlier because someone stood up for him, and now it happens again- God is protecting Jeremiah, but not in the method we would necessarily want. An Ethiopian goes to the king and says it isn't right. He doesn't have the Jewish perspective on the situation but rather is looking at it in terms of right and wrong. The king agrees to allow Jeremiah to be rescued, and he is returned to the courtyard. We hear there is no bread in the city, so it is very close to the end.

Later the king calls for Jeremiah and tells him to "hold nothing back". Jeremiah is skeptical of the king, that he means it, and gets the king to swear he won't kill Jeremiah. Up to this point Jeremiah had been saying Jerusalem would be destroyed, but he tells the king that if he will surrender to the Babylonians - the king will be spared, his family will be spared, and the city will be spared. If the king had realized who God is (had any idea) then these reasons are a very compelling reason to surrender. Instead Zedekiah is worried about men- those that already surrendered. Jeremiah tells him God would even protect him from them. Again Zedekiah's vision of God, who He is and what He can do is limited - obviously. Jeremiah informs Zedekiah that non-surrender will result in the city being burned, him not escaping, and his family having to go through hardship. His wives will be given to the officers of Babylon. Jeremiah also reminds him that his so called "friends" had given him bad advice. They told him what he wanted to hear, and not the truth. People in power often get surrounded by such people. Leaders want people around them to say things are going well, and the people around him feared repercussions for bad reports, so they held their tongue. Even after Jeremiah had said the city would be destroyed , God offered to spare it if Zedekiah surrendered. God holds out hope to the very last.

Sadly Zedekiah feared his own officials more than he feared God. He knew they would check up on him, so he coached Jeremiah what to say when they asked, and sure enough they did. Zedekiah sounds like a puppet king, or maybe he didn't really hold the authority, or maybe he felt he owed somebody something and therefore would not act on God's choice. It seems this is a very sad choice, and not very prevalent. However if we have any beliefs, or hold anything in a higher regard than God, then we too are just as likely not follow God's leadings. Thats why we are to put nothing before the Lord. Maybe his idol was his position, and surrender would mean giving it up. So rather than pin his hopes on God's sure (and proven message) he held out hope that the advisors around him (who had been wrong so far) would be right.

Zedekiah made a bad decision, and we can only speculate as to why. We must be careful we don't become as blind to the truth as he did and make bad decisions ourselves.
Maybe as was suggested by a group member he was jealous that God spoke to Jeremiah, but not to him the king. Pride is not good.

Sunday August 23, 2009 Jeremiah 32-33

We had 6 tonight for Wordlisteners, and lively discussions to go with
scripture reading. The Lord blessed. I personally wanted to catch up
on the guest leader last week, who was very well received. We agreed
there was a cyclical pattern to historical events, and that some of the
prophets messages for that time were not fulfilled completely - yet.

Also for the sake of continuity I was asked to post the notes I had made
for Ch 30 and 31.

Chapter 30
God told Jeremiah to write everything He told him in a book. God made sure His message for us is correct, and then He guarded it as needed until it came to us. Something only God could do, and something He has done.

Dark days are ahead for Israel but the Lord will bring them back, and set up a David-King for them. This has not been fully fulfilled - yes they were brought back, but had no king. Yes Jesus came but not as King. It also says those that come back will serve God (some did, others ... well). It also says the godless nations that the Jews were scattered to will be finished off. Has this even happened?

Israel was burned out (destroyed), others had decided based on God's judgments that He had given up on them, the "fair weather" friends left, but God was only punishing Israel for their sin in a way they would never forget. God is still protecting them, Everyone that hurts Israel God will hurt. The enemies of Israel will become slaves to them, those that plundered punished Israel will themselves be plundered. God will come with healing, and cure the incurable. God will rebuild the homes (Jesus went to prepare a place), God will save them- He will take pride in their community, their leader will have access to God, we'll be His people, and He will be our God.

Chapter 31
When God saves Israel it will be as plain as the sun at high noon. It won't have to be interpreted, it won't be 50% +1. God will be the God of everyone. Israel looked for rest and found God looking for them. Need rest? Seek God more.

Israel will start over God-centered - what a joy.

God saves the core of Israel then there is verse 8 - His people come back. Gathering of the Jews from all the nations will happen after the nation is established and revival has broken out. We see a glimpse of this, but not the real intent and action. Blind, lame, limping, pregnant, - all gathered (this is part of the fallen world or in our time). All gathered also means those that need help getting there, and not necessarily the affluent. This is more than a decision by people who have means. In Isaiah 60 it is said the nations will bring them back to Israel.

God will care for them- He will take their hands and lead them.
God will bless them.

Rachel weeping- God's message (a continuation?, before?, after?). Israel sent to exile. I'm guessing its before, maybe its a repeating cycle. Israel to exile to collect the wages of their grief work (note- not exiled for doing God's work but rather following their own desires). God will bring them home eventually.

People are like wild horses- sometimes God has to break us, or allow us to break ourselves, in order for us to get to the point He can use us. Once we are obedient to Him we are then useful for His work.

We run loose do our own thing - hit hardship decide to repent (and mean it- very important that it isn't lip service).
God then trains us, some taking longer than others.
He brings us to a point of usefulness for His purposes.

While all the above is happening, God waits for us and longs for relationship with us.

More rest - coming to God brings about "rest". I often say that "I'm tired" (without thought and from habit) - I should be seeking the one who can refresh.

Rest- a pleasant and satisfying sleep.

People and animals planted again in Israel- He will stick with them this time. He will make a new covenant - write His laws on their hearts. They will be His people, He will be their God (church? saved Israel?)- Not happened yet.

No schools about God (seminaries), they will know Him 1st hand. Clean slates no sin (forgiven, and forgotten). Israel will be a nation before Him as long as there is a cosmos. God's city will be rebuilt - never to be torn down again.

Chapter 32
Babylon had Jerusalem under siege. Jeremiah was locked up for proclaiming God's message. The same would happen to the apostles and to Paul, why shouldn't it happen to us? Jeremiah's message was that the city would fall (which was God's message) the king didn't like the message so he had Jeremiah imprisoned. When you can't refute God's message (and who can) the only recourse is to persecute the messenger and try to prevent it from getting out. Jeremiah said resistance to Babylon was futile.

Right in the middle of this situation Jeremiah's Uncle is coming to see him. The Lord instructs Jeremiah to purchase a field. Even in the midst of impending doom, God is on the other side. We often become too focused on the immediate rather than the beyond. All the details of the transaction is included. A normal life will eventually return to Jerusalem, and affirmation of the fact that God is in control- something else we often "forget".

Judah is being punished for sins started by the parents (32:16-19). Now God also reached out to their children, but they made the choice to continue in their parent's sin. Its easiest for children to repeat the behavior of their parents, its so ingrained, so exposed, it seems so right. This makes it very difficult to break the negative behaviors passed on from one generation to another. All things are possible however for those in Christ.

God had established Israel miraculously and they turned their backs to Him (God). As a result bad times are at hand, but God is merciful, and a future exists beyond the bad times.

Babylon will take Jerusalem, every roof that was used for an alter to another God will be torn down. Its interesting that God's nature is that he is so ready to forgive and then forget the sins we repent of. Those we don't repent of He has meticulous records. After years of giving them the opportunity to repent while His message was proclaimed through Jeremiah (Isaiah really first), He has had enough. He is destroying the city to destroy the wicked lives. He is sovereign - He can. They turned away from God rather than sin- there are consequences.

The whole country became an act of sin. The destruction of the city would take place after the "best" had been taken away to Babylon. Example of rapture? Losing the best to Babylon didn't cause repentance, but rather a hardening. The country in crisis did not turn to God but rather to other gods and more fervently sought their answers from these idols.

A break to present times, if our financial crisis is so "bad" why isn't our Government calling on people to "pray" for the USA? Are we not repeating the very actions of Judah from so long ago?

After the crisis He will gather them, He will make them one mind, He will fill their hearts with such deep respect such that they won't turn away- in fact not even think it. I don't believe this has happened yet in History. He'll delight in doing good things for them.

After a glimpse of distant future - the now (or then) catastrophe is coming.

Prosperity and restoration long term.

Chapter 33
Jerusalem is about to be over run by Babylon, Jeremiah is still in jail- another example that following God can bring about difficulty or hardship from a wordly standpoint. God sends him a message saying call to me and I will answer you. A servant of God in jail for serving God, and God is going to tell him things. Often we are too short sighted, and currently in Jerusalem there was destruction and killing and the ravages of war. God is telling Jeremiah of His plans for later, the present situation is based on the evil actions of the people that God had tried to warn (for generations).

The future is that God has plans for renovation, along with the restoration of every lost thing. God will restore, He will build, He will cleanse the people, He'll forgive, and the world will be in awe. This hasn't happened yet. Parts of it are available and in place, but it isn't complete. The world is not in awe of what God has done, Jesus did go to prepare a place.

What we see as unlivable, empty and desolate, God sees differently. We often give up on things and people long before God does, He is truly long suffering. The desolation will become pasture for shepherds.

The time is coming when God will keep His promise to the families of Israel and Judah. The David King (Jesus) will come and He will run the country honestly and fairly (in a leadership position). He will set things right. When that happens Jerusalem and Judah will be secure, they have always been threatened, and remain so to this day. Yet God will set things right. He allowed man's decision (Adam and Eve) to make His perfect creation a fallen world, He is the only one who can restore it. Only by living in a fallen world could we see (and everybody have that opportunity) of our need for Him.

God's covenant with David is the same as the covenant creating night and day in terms of importance. One can't fail unless the other does. His covenant with the "Levitical Priests" may mean us, because we Christians serve Him and our priests- I've seen the scripture, Exodus 19:6 originally for those who kept the covenant, but Christians are later grafted in (wild vine into the tame one).

Why hasn't it happened yet? This completeness, is it ever going to happen? Is it a real occurrence in this world, or is it for the one after? The covenants are referred to again, God has not forgotten, even when things look bleak, He will restore. Just like it took him six days to create the earth, He may take 6 days to work with man bringing him back to the point where what He had originally envisioned for the earth and a relationship with man will happen. But it will.

I like the last word - He will have mercy (as opposed I'm guessing to judgment).

August 16, Jeremiah 30 and 31

Word Listeners met on Sunday, August 16 to study Jeremiah 30 and 31. There was a guest leader Mark Conforti, who is also our pastor. Many thanks to him for filling in.

Here are his notes.


Mark Conforti began the session talking about biblical prophetic writings. The prophets spoke a particular word to a particular people at a particular time. Rarely did they attempt to predict a future event. Rather, their words served as warnings, similarly to a parent warning a child of his/her actions. We live with the consequences of our actions (although, God occasionally delivers us from our mistakes). And so the prophets' way of speaking was: "If you do ____, then ____ will happen to you." There was always a future implication in the prophets' words; this is subtly different than the prophets predicting future events (eg the invasion of Poland or world wars thousands of years later).


Jeremiah and Ezekiel were two prophets serving during the time of Jerusalem's demise (587 BC) at the hands of the Babylonians. While the events around Israel's fleeing of Egypt remain the centerpiece of the Old Testament, there's no denying that much of the Old Testament is written in light of Jerusalem's downfall.


Chapter 30 deals with the promised restoration of Israel and Judah, the two kingdoms once united together. In verse 7, the name "Jacob" is used interchangeably with "Israel." This is commonplace in the Old Testament. (Later, the term "Ephraim" is used affectionately for the people of Israel as a whole.) Eric suggested that verse 7 was a reference to a millenial reign.
Throughout chapter 30, the Lord asks the people why they mourn in light of the Lord's promise of redemption.


Chapter 31 celebrates the return of the exiles. This is likely a reference to King Cyrus of Persia and his edict that allowed for Jews to return to Jerusalem. Verses 31-34 famously point to Jesus Christ, the one in whom God established a new covenant. These verses are frequently read during Advent the season of preparation for Christ's coming into the world.

Aug. 9, 2009 - Jeremiah 25-29

We had 7 for Wordlisteners and some new faces. We covered Chapter 25-29 and had a lively discussion. Chapter 29 is one of those that shows an example of how much God loves us.

Chapter 25
This chapter starts out with a very specific date reference message during reign of Jehoiakim. Jeremiah is asked by God to speak to the people (again). He reminds them that he has been speaking to them for 23 years and they haven't listened yet, seemingly not to one word.

Its not been just a refusal to listen to Jeremiah, but God has sent a steady stream of prophets that have been ignored by the people. They said turn back (repent) and live in the land God promised them, but they would not. They chose to follow the god fads of the day, which made God angry.

He is sending for Nebuchadnezzar His servant and he will destroy everything. A horror to top all the horrors in history. Judah will serve Babylon 70 years, and then God will punish Babylon- making it a wasteland.

The nations will drink the wine of God's wrath, becoming drunk and staggering. All the kingdoms on earth are included with Babylon being last. The invasion of Judah by Babylon seems to be a glimpse of end times. Israel is slated for massacre, the catastrophe will start in Jerusalem- its the sword and nothing but.

God roars from heaven and everyone everywhere hears it, God makes His case against godless nations and is going to put the human race on trial, with death to the guilty.

Prepare for doomsday, disaster is spreading from nation to nation, a huge storm is about to rage all across planet earth. Those killed by God's judgment will stretch from one end of the earth to the other (22.8 million 5'8” people laid end to end to go around the earth- following land masses and shortest distances across oceans would mean more). They will not be buried.

Shepherds and leaders will wail- there will be no escape. God will come out in the open.

Chapter 26
This chapter starts out with God telling Jeremiah to preach yet again to the people. Jehoiakim- same king as Chapter 25 and maybe earlier. Say everything God tells him, hold nothing back. “just maybe they will listen and turn back (repent) from their bad lives. What a heart God has for us. He wants us to turn to Him, He calls us. He wants to reconsider the disasters that our evil behavior brings about. He wanted Moses to talk Him out of destroying Israel. He does want what is best for us, and sometimes that is to let us flounder in our own way.

Even though up to this point they have never listened and there is no rational belief that they will begin now- the offer is still there. Otherwise a promise of destruction is given. What happened – they wanted to kill the messenger, they had made the Temple their idol and God's promise to destroy it if they did not listen was not well accepted.

A trial was held, Jeremiah was accused of preaching against the city. Actually they were putting God on trial because He wasn't willing to give up His sovereignty to them. Jeremiah responded that his message of temple destruction was based on their actions, and therefore they were in control of their own destiny. God had called them- what was their response? He then said he was at their mercy, but it was God that spoke through him. They acquitted Jeremiah, they recognized that he spoke with the authority of God.

Then they reviewed the history, a similar thing had taken place under king Hezekiah. Micah of Moresheth preached and Hezekiah heeded it. They listened to Micah's message, heeded it, and the Lord changed His mind about the disaster He was planning. Seems God gives new leaders a chance to heed His message,

Another prophet Uriah had preached the way Jeremiah did, was threatened and fled to Egypt. The king in Jerusalem had him captured and returned where he was killed and his body dumped. Nobody stood up for him.

In Jeremiah's case one man Ahikam stood up with Jeremiah. What a difference when one man stands up. When nobody is willing to agree with the prophet of God, the prophet is killed (murdered may be a better term). When one man agrees murder is prevented. It does not mean they heeded the message. Jeremiah had asked for protection, God had promised it to him, and He only needed one man to prevent a lynching. Later all Jesus disciples would abandon Him too during and after trial.

Chapter 27
Another visual, make a yoke. Then send messages to surrounding kingdoms. Isn't it neat that God gets His message spread. The one who made earth, man and woman, all the animals, and did it on His own without asking, and He gives it whichever created being He chooses. In this case it is Nebudchadnezzar's turn, for a while anyway. Either submit to Babylon or take on a yoke that will bring about war starvation and disease until they do submit. Interesting – not submitting to authority is a result of pride, and God allows war, starvation and disease to make us submit to His will. How does this fit in with follow leaders as they follow God? Only in submitting to Babylon will nations keep their sovereignty. Now the advisors in these nations are foretelling the “future” and saying to resist Babylon. All their advice is lies, only God's is trustworthy.

His message is also for Judah – serve Babylon or suffer. His advisors are telling him wrong. Then he goes to the priests and the people at large with the same message. Some temple treasures had been taken to Babylon already. Since the king is Zedekiah – the best of Jerusalem along with some of the temple treasures had already been taken to Babylon (this would include Daniel). The audience of this message is the “bad figs” of chapter 24. God is giving them a chance to repent, to obey His voice after saying in Ch 24 they would be destroyed- what a mercy offer. Zedekiah is promised a long life if he submits to Babylonian authority. He wants to change His plans, He wants relationship. The treasures left in the Temple will stay- if they submit- even though He had previously said the rest would go and the city would be destroyed. He will eventually see that the treasures come back when God makes it happen.

Chapter 28
Hannaniah a prophet from Gibeon confronted Jeremiah in the Temple and stated his message was from God. The Temple furnishings will come back, the exiles will return within 2 years. Right prophecy wrong time frame. Jeremiah said it would be wonderful if it were true, he said prophets from old spoke of war, judgments, plagues and disasters in general so a prophecy of good news – everything is well should be suspected. Time will tell- if it happens we'll know its from God, if not then it isn't.

Jeremiah was calm, Hannaniah was emotional and passionate. He smashed Jeremiah's yoke and repeated his prophecy. Jeremiah quietly left. We have to be careful with passion, just because we want something very strongly or very badly as Hannaniah did doesn't mean it will happen, it has to agree with God's will.

Later AFTER Jeremiah got a message from God concerning Hannaniah's actions he went to him and told him what God had said. The wooden yoke was broken, and the iron yoke replaced it. The nations would be at the whim and will of Nebuchadnezzar. Hannaniah's “prophecy” since it was more desirable than what Jeremiah had given them (submit), maybe led them to choose badly. Hannaniah talked the country into believing a pack of lies- so God sent him to his death. Not suddenly- he gave him time to say goodbye.

Chapter 29
This chapter shares the letter sent to the exiles- the first group. This was the bulk of the exiles taken to Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar's first trip). The letter said live life, build houses, marry and have kids, work for the country's welfare, Pray for the country's well being. We're in exile from God's kingdom of sorts so it is an outline of how we're supposed to live. It is also confirmation of what God said- in this case that Jerusalem would fall to Babylon. God will tarry a while before bringing the exiles back, like He tarries prior to bringing us home.

This is somewhat in contrast to the message earlier in Jeremiah where He tells Jeremiah not to marry or have kids- Jeremiah is in Jerusalem, these exiles are in Babylon. Furthermore he tells Jeremiah not to pray for this people. God's judgment is imminent in this case. Another indicator that when God acts, people know about it.

God says 70 years in Babylon - then He will take them home. God has plans for His people, plans for a future. Wait through 70 years of exile and then plans to give them the future they hope for. Some will die in exile, the future they hoped for was not realized fully after the exile- how do we understand God in that? Obviously the reward He is promising isn't necessarily in this life.

When we seek Him we WILL find Him- He does want us to be serious about it. He'll turn things around - after we're serious with Him and only then. It will not be as a result of any of our own efforts acting without Him .

Those that were missing home (Jerusalem in this case) - hard times are coming for Jerusalem. They will hear news that God is sending catastrophe - evidence His word is true. Hard times will come to Jerusalem because they didn't listen to God.

Now the story of Shemaiah - he said "God set him up as priest" - didn't we discuss a few chapters back the dangers of saying God told me this? Well here is an example. God can make His desires known without using people. In other words if Shemaiah was in fact God's chosen for priest, someone other than Shemaiah would know. "God said" does still apply to the reading of the scripture- however even a scripture passage can mean different things to different people as God shows Himself through them.

Shemaiah tried to take authority that God did not grant to him, and he was called on it. He claimed he had locked up prophets, but he hadn't done anything about Jeremiah - still proclaiming God's message. This lie Shemaiah told exposed him as not being sent by God. Shemaiah and his family were punished over his actions. It is important to note that families are definitely affected by the actions of a family member. It was true then and is today. It seems God picks those He chooses for positions, rather or not they ever get any recognition.

7/19/2009 Jeremiah 21-24

We had 6 for Wordlisteners tonight, it was after another meeting for one of our members. It has been three weeks because last week we had a Pastor welcoming dinner for the new Pastor we have been blessed with. I didn't know it at the time of that post.

God is so good, and these chapters stress God's goodness, and His desire for us to know Him individually.

I think next week VBS will keep us from meeting. The week after will be Praise and Worship service, so it will be another three weeks.


Chapter 21
The siege begins in Jerusalem. One of the chapters from Jeremiah's last days. Not sure why its here other than Pashur who put him in stocks is sent to him by the king. The siege has begun, there are actual events taking place- predicted by Jeremiah. Even though they didn't acknowledge his messages from God, they heard them, because they knew who to go to when things starting getting bad. Jerusalem was under attack. It was too late, they still wanted relief from their problems rather than to be submitted to God. So God was going to fight against Israel with the Babylonians. The morale was going to go down, and the king would be delivered to his enemy. Nebuchadnezzar will kill people ruthlessly- sounds bad, unfair. God was angry and He decided to destroy the city.

He is God, so when He destroys a city He can ensure fairness (from an eternity standpoint). When we as people destroy and hurt- it is out of selfishness, and for what we think is our gain. Big difference. We are not God, and when we think about how He lets "bad things happen" we are firstly elevating ourselves through pride to the place of God, and furthermore forgetting two things. Bad things happen due to our disobedience to God and the presence of sin in our lives, and that God sees things from an eternity standpoint. We only see what we believe to be an injustice from our limited viewpoint. God knows hearts, we don't (period- though we think we do- we still don't, to do so calls God a liar).

Even in the midst of impending doom, God gives those focused on their life in this world a choice to avoid death. Will they listen? will they act? Their history indicates a "no". He instructs them through Jeremiah to surrender, and doesn't sugarcoat it either- He plainly states they will lose everything but their life. In staying they will be killed- their choice. Lose everything (worldly possessions in this life) and live or die. In the new testament it says those that wish to save their life will lose it, and those that lose their life for His sake will find it (Luke 9:24). I see a parallel.
The king of Babylon will burn Jerusalem to the ground- God said it- it happened.

Message to the rulers- deal with justice- deal fairly. Rescue those exploited. This prevents God's anger. An anger once started can not be put out. Looks like they had not listened to Him for long enough, they felt secure, but with God nobody is secure, and their party will be crashed.

Chapter 22
This chapter happened chronologically before 21 (this is the warning to Jehoiakim who preceded Zedekiah (warning of Chapter 21)). I think God allowed them to be arranged like this to show that His message was the same and repeated. Although ignored. The message- attend to justice, set things right between people, rescue those exploited, don't take advantage of homeless orphans and widows, stop murdering. If they obey - He will protect them, and kings will continue in Judah. If they don't then Judah will be rubble.

God ranked Judah and Jerusalem among His favorite places, and yet because of disobedience He is going to let become ruined. Because they walked away from Him.

Weep for exiled son - who will die in exile, never to see home again. Just like the warning- doom to those that build palaces but destroy lives, cheats workers, lives in extravagance. His father- treated people fairly, stuck up for down and out, Judah was protected - some evidence that God means what He says. Its also evidence of knowing God.

Blind and brainless- think of self, take advantage of weak, bully those they are in authority over. The king of Judah that did those things will get a donkey's funeral.

God states that the people of Jerusalem have made a total mess of their lives. He tried to speak to them when things were going well and they were not interested. When things go well we often soon turn from God. It takes crisis brought on by our sin to get us to turn to God. He will let their leaders be blown away, friends to exile, ending up in the gutter. God is giving the kings of these people over to judgment- exile and never seeing home again. The God who knows their hearts. God is the potter and Jehoiachin is a leaky bucket- rusted out. He's the last of the kings to sit on Judah's throne. David's line survived and went into exile. The people of Judah clung to God's promise that he would always have a king in Judah of the line of David (1 Kings 9:5 ) but forgot verse 6 making it conditional upon the obedience of the Israelites. I'm sure they "prayed" that scripture and stood on the promise, and remembered God's deliverance of Jerusalem from the Assyrians.

Chapter 23
Even though He is going to allow Jerusalem to be destroyed, His desire was to protect Jerusalem and Israel, so He has plans to renew it. But in Jeremiah in the present situation, the leaders of His people aren't listening to Him. That to me means it is important for His sheep to hear from Him directly. He will track the errant leaders actions, eventually having to gather His sheep Himself, He'll appoint leaders (Himself). Man will fail in taking care of God's people- He will have to do it. We'll fail because of our sinful natures and selfish attitudes. He wants us to be obedient to Him, losing self.

After the destruction of Israel God will establish a David branch Ruler- Jesus. He will make everything right, He will bring fairness- isn't that what we want? Jesus setting up His kingdom will be a greater event than the parting of the red sea. The statement bringing Israel back - certainly it was started with the re-establishment of the nation of Israel in 1948, but at this time God's people also includes the church, in Jesus reign we'll want to go to Israel. So could bringing Israel back include the Christians?

Now some teaching about those lying prophets- those that speak for God and advise people but don't truly have a relationship with God. What is the result of widespread lying prophets?

A country full of adulterers, faithless, promiscuous idolater adulterers. Are we there yet? We got there by listening and following people who don't listen to or follow God. We should also be checking with God for direction ourselves.

The land becomes a wasteland- unfaithfulness makes the land a cesspool.

Religious leaders that have nothing to do with God. Mud spatters His house (God allows it)- but He is in control. They will go to pitch black darkness.

In Samaria there were prophets preaching false doctrine. This messes with minds- causes confusion. These prophets were sex driven and not God driven. They subsidized wickedness (I think by not confronting it, those actions are sort of support), actions without thinking (not giving something a second thought) could also be supportive.

Hardships and death are coming.

Don't listen to the prophets that don't go to God, don't seek Him, don't listen for Him. They make it all up themselves, you would hear their thoughts and not God's- you have your own thoughts you don't need theirs. False prophets have a couple sermons:
The everything will turn out fine sermon, that they preach to congregations with no taste for God. Upon reflection – if the congregation has a taste for God things will turn out fine (eventually- but their will be trials)- fellowship with God is there. If a congregation doesn't have a taste for God – everything will not turn out fine, trials on this path too, and no fellowship with God.

Another one is the nothing bad will ever happen sermon- to those set in their ways. God protects those that are in fellowship with Him- not that they don't have trials, but He gives them grace to get through. If you are set in your ways, then you are not listening to God, nor are you obedient to Him, your pride has elevated itself and pushed God out, you have become ritualistic instead of following the Shepherd. As a matter of the way God organized the universe, if you are in this condition – you most definitely are in trouble.

Prophets need to listen to and live out His word. False prophets don't bother to listen, let alone live out. They will be surprised by God's hurricane, those that listen to God will see it coming, and provisions will be made by God for them. They may have to go through the storm, but they will know He is with them in it.

False prophets God never sent, people He never spoke to or called preaching. They couldn't be bothered by God (they don't have the “time”), and yet without God's guidance the wrong path is taken. Furthermore God is ever present and available He cannot be hidden from. So He is accessible to everyone, those that don't listen to Him have to choose and make a conscious effort to ignore Him.

False prophets (God non-seekers)– say they have dreams, and take the dreams as a sign. Their focus is their glory and not God's. They are wrapped up in self and how they appear - “man of God” or “woman of God” - and not “a sinner saved by grace”. They swap their stories, none of it involving God, and as a result they can be a distraction, distracting people from God.

Tell God's message faithfully- His message is like fire. He is tired of false prophets made up messages, but He is giving them a chance to- He wants that all should repent and come to Him. Prophets not faithful to God are of NO BENEFIT. Anyone who asks what God's position on a matter is, obviously hasn't sought His position, and that is a trouble sign.

Now as to God's positions, instead of claiming to “know” what God says it should be discussed- “how do we understand God in this?”. What is He saying to you on this matter? Instead of “He said this...” it should be more along the lines of “this is my understanding...”. God authorizes those that speak for Him, so we need to talk about our understanding, rather than proclaim God said it. He authorizes who speaks for Him in order to keep His message from being twisted. Our beliefs, thoughts and interpretations can twist His message if we promote them as coming from God when in fact they are just our interpretations.

Ask Him – seek Him, How did God answer? What did He say? How do we interpret it, or How do we understand God in this? Don't pretend you know all the answers, especially if He has given you some insight. Don't talk or act like you know it all.

God asks at the end of His message through Jeremiah if they are paying attention. He is about to act, those paying attention are thus warned, those not paying attention will be surprised.

Chapter 24
A this point a review of the history of Judah and its kings are in order. In 2 Chronicles 36 for sure and before it lists the kings of Judah in order. Some understanding of this is important in determining how the nation became separated into two parts one represented by a basket of good figs, and the other represented by the basket of bad figs. The good figs were taken before the worst trouble in Jerusalem, and protected, nourished, etc. remotely (an example similar to Christians taken at the rapture before the tribulation period?). The bad figs represent those that endured the worst trouble in Jerusalem- (those left in the tribulation period?). Jeremiah stayed – an example that God will have a voice during the tribulation period. Now the kings of Judah and how we got to two baskets of figs.
Starting with Hezekiah- a good king

Then Manasseh- an evil king, he is referenced as the reason Judah is punished, the people followed him as he practiced terrible things, including burning of children. 2 Chron 33 says he was taken with a hook in his nose to Assyria where he repented and God accepted it allowing him to return to Jerusalem. I guess the man repented, but the practices he started and allowed continued.

Then Amon – evil

Then Josiah – well behaved

Then Jehoahaz (all sons of their father to this point) Jehoahaz was taken to Egypt by the Egyptian king and his brother was established as king by the Egyptians.

Jehoiakim (Jehoahaz' brother) was evil- Nebudchadnezzar came (1st wave of Babylon, and he was taken to Babylon with the “best of Judah” (rapture like?)

Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim's son)became the next king – established by Babylonians- Nebuchadnezzar later ordered him brought to Babylon as well along with Temple valuables.

Zedekiah (Jehoiachin's uncle – I'm guessing another son of Josiah) was the next king- established by the Babylonians. He was evil, and rebelled against Babylon. This caused Nebuchadnezzar to come for the second time to Jerusalem. This is where it was destroyed completely and people killed indiscrimanently.

The two baskets – one are the Jews taken after Nebudchadnezzar's first visit (good figs) – tucked away and protected by God in Babylon. The bad figs are the ones left in Jerusalem, and those that eventually tried to escape to Egypt when Nebuchadnezzar came the second time.

God said the good figs He will see to it they are cared for, and the bad figs He will see to it they are killed.