Word Listeners

August 14 Obadiah, Jonah and Micah 1-3

2011-08-14T18:02:00.000-07:00

We had six for Wordlisteners tonight, and we read the chapters listed in the title.

Obadiah, an unknown servant of the Lord. Not much is known about Him. In serving the Lord he was trusted with this message. We can all be trusted of the Lord if we will indeed serve Him and give up our right to ourself. Edom was a nation that was descended from Esau, and they watched (and rejoiced) in the destruction of the Northern Kingdom (Israel) and were glad when Judah came under attack. Yet they were related to those people. Often we are "glad" when people we think are evil "get what they deserve", and I'm sure that applied to the Edomites as they looked at their brothers. Is it love to rejoice at the misfortune of others? The end times will bring about great distress, should we look forward to it? I look for the time after when Jesus will set up His Kingdom as God intended and am comforted by the fact that God will call people to Him as has never happened before. God has always let people choose though throughout history. God's message through Obadiah is that with the measure we rejoice over another's suffering is the measure that we will suffer. As you have done it will return unto you. This is similar to the return of our giving in the New Testament Luke 6:38. The Lord affirms that He will have the last say.

Jonah, Written during the strong time of the Northern kingdom of Israel, Assyria was their enemy, Nineveh was the capital city of their enemy. God intended to send Jonah to Nineveh because of their sin. Jonah was disobedient to God. God wants complete obedience from all His servants and yet like Jonah, we get to choose on a case by case basis. When Jonah disobeyed God sent consequences to try and regain his obedience to the Lord. You could say Jonah wanted his own way rather than God's, but God brought him to the point of seeing that the consequence of disobedience was much greater then the consequence of obedience.

So Jonah went as God had directed, and Nineveh actually listened to what Jonah said and repented. Since these people repented, God relented on sending His wrath. So Jonah obeyed God but became angry when the outcome he wanted did not occur. That God relented made what Jonah said not true, it made him look bad. So even though Jonah seemingly obeyed he was still not happy with the outcome (the Lord's will). So we can seemingly obey and expect certain outcomes that are not what the Lord had in mind. The Lord wanted to forgive, Jonah did not.

Jonah was angry at God because of His loving kindness. The laborers in vineyard in Jesus parable have the same reaction. Those that worked all day got the same reward as those that went out the last hour. We are quick to expect certain outcomes based on the way we think rather than discern from God continually His will. When we fall into certain expectations , we have left God and His plans.

Micah, a prophet before the fall of Israel and Judah who warned of coming judgment, but also to remind that God pardons those who repent. Its written to all peoples over the entire earth. The Lord is coming to be on the high places of the earth. This could apply to the last days. Then He gets Samaria specific, and speaks of the upcoming destruction of Samaria and exile.

Chapter 2 "woe to those who scheme iniquity". We are to think on the things of God specifically His will for us and our relationship with Him. If we do that, we will not be scheming iniquity. Woe to oppressors a man walking after wind and falsehood had told lies and spoke of wine and liquor, he would be the spokesman of the people.

Chapter 3 of Micah is about the leaders of Israel, but we all marveled at how similar the description is to our own leaders. Leaders who do unjust things and expect God's blessings.

July 31st

2011-08-14T08:44:00.001-07:00

We finished up Amos and are ready for Obadiah, Jonah, and possibly into Micah when next we meet (8/14).

July 24th

2011-08-14T08:41:00.000-07:00

We studied Joel, and the first two chapters of Amos. It is amazing how similar the times of Joel and Amos are to the ones we currently live in.

July 17, 2011 Hosea 9-14

2011-07-17T17:33:00.000-07:00

We had 7 for Wordlisteners on this night and we finished Hosea. God wants relationship with each and every one of us and even though we often fail Him and turn from Him, he leaves the door open for reconciliation. God prospered them and they turned away. They reached a point of depravity and although God didn't want to He left them. One of our members said we are either under the blessing or the curse.

the people of Israel, when they split from Judah made a calf. In the wilderness with Moses, they made a calf. The calf is a representation of their wealth or capital, but with the Lord there may also be a deeper meaning. Certainly worshiping God's creation rather than God the creator applies.

Even though the people turned away and sunk into deep depravity, God leaves the door open and states that one day the people will put Him in the proper place and He will restore them.

Next week we'll study in Joel and Amos.

July 10 Hosea Chapters 1-8

2011-07-17T17:26:00.000-07:00

We had 6 for Wordlisteners on this night. My notes are below. It was amazing how much alike the world is today as it was in Hosea's day just before the Assyrians took Israel into exile.

Chapter 1

Enough information is given to establish the time frame the book was written. This was at a time just before the Samaria (Israel) to the Assyrians.

Marriage is used by God as an example to illustrate the nation of Israel's relationship to Him. He instructs Hosea to take a wife of harlotry and have children. God hates divorce as we have read previously, and in terms of Israel's faithfulness to Him, He has every right to put them (us) out, but chooses to love us.

Gomer, Hosea's wife bore him a son, and then had two more children - of which can't be said with certainty that he was the father. This illustrates how Israel had multiple gods, instead of the one true God. Are we true to God, or do we play the field of all the other distractions that can take our focus off of Him?

Verse 10-11 show that even though God is about to let Assyria overthrow Samaria for Israel's unfaithfulness, that He is committed to this relationship with Israel long term. The day of Jezreel will be the day bloodshed ends and God makes all things right.

Chapter 2
A last chance for Israel, like a last chance for an adulterous spouse. A last chance for for the idolator that puts other things before God. The harlot uses the word "I" (several times) in terms of I will do things my way, and I want my way. But God says He is the reason she has what she has, even that which she used in worship of other Gods. God will take back what is His. He won't make us do things His way, but He may hedge our way with thorns to lead us in the direction He desires. We use the word "I" and Jesus said He does nothing that His Father
didn't show Him.

Again restoration is talked about, when we get to the end of the blessings of God, or they are taken away. When we get to the ends of our health, or it is taken away. Then our attention will turn to God (Job's attention held fast through good times and bad) or we will curse God (like Satan told God man would in Job).

At that time our relationship to God will be like that to a spouse. The closest and deepest possible. Our obedience to a master will turn into the closest relationship that is possible. (Ishi- Husband, Baali- master) Creation will respond to our right relationship to God, just like the land spews out those that defile it -Leviticus 18:28

God's heart - He wants relationship with us in His creation.

Chapter 3
Hosea has to go redeem his wife. She had sold herself into bondage through her harlotry. The nation will be taken away, they will live in exile, and not have a leader. One less idol to make them focus on God, and once seeking God, He will let Himself be found.

Chapter 4
The example of Gomer and Hosea is dropped, the nation of Israel is now described. No faithfulness, kindness or knowledge of God in the land- where is the US heading?

Violence, deception and a mourning land.

Everyone languishes (grow weak).

When Israel split from Judah they made two calves to worship in Samaria and appointed priests who were not Levites. This shows a clear refusal to obey God, or at the very least ignorance of His ways. Yet Israel was a nation many years before God let them be captured.

Chapter 5
Wanting our own way, and serving the gods that we think will get us what we want leads to hardship and ruin. Affliction, until we get to the point where we will seek God earnestly.

Chapter 6
The Lord tears, and the Lord heals. Did the Lord send it? Does He wound so He can bandage? If the world was created such that those that deny the Lord get into afflictions, is that the same as God sending it, or a consequence ?

He will raise us up on the third day- sure sounds familiar. He wants us to live before Him, He wants us to know Him.

He has hewn us by messages from His prophets, He has slain us with His words. He cries out for us. Our loyalty is fleeting, but He delights in it. Firm and consistent loyalty to Him. He wants us to have knowledge of Him (know Him) rather than offer sacrifices.

Chapter 7 and 8 I did not create specific notes for.

June 26, Leviticus 26-27, Malachi

2011-06-26T17:40:00.000-07:00

Tonight we had 7 for Word listeners and we read the last two chapters of Leviticus and the book of Malachi.

Leviticus 26 is pretty self explanatory, obey the Lord and He'll take care of us in this life. Don't obey the Lord and He will let things happen progressively that are designed to get our attention turn us back to Him. He will gladly welcome us back even from the depths we let ourselves sink to wanting our way.. He wants relationship with us, He wants us to be obedient to His ways. We have to give up the right to ourselves and wanting our way and accept His. This points to Jesus in that He came and made it possible for us to have that relationship.

Leviticus chapter 27 is about valuations. Males typically were valued more than females not because males are more valuable to God, but rather because men could generally accomplish more of the typical labor of the day. As part of being obedient to God the 1st 10% should be given to Him. Additionally people made vows to God to give more. God is serious about vows and He expects us to keep our vows. If we change our mind it takes 20% more value than the value promised in money to buy it back. That God is serious about vows and expects us to keep ours shows His heart, and that He will keep His. That was a point the pastor made in church today, that it would be a better world if people just kept their promises.

After reading in Leviticus about the requirements for sacrifices Malachi was a good fit. At the end of the old testament God stated that people were not giving Him their best- lame animals for sacrifices. Animals they wouldn't give their leaders.

Not keeping their vows or promises to the wife of their youth by divorcing her (which God stated in the chapter that He hates), but after doing something God hates they openly wondered why He wouldn't bless them. God is still called in our day during wedding ceremonies to "witness" the union, of which about half don't make it.

They also complained that serving God wasn't lucrative -implying it wasn't worth their while. God told them the people were not bringing the whole tithe.

God said he would send a purifier or refiner, and set things right. A vow or promise? Even after all our enlightenment and technology we're still at about the same place the people in Malachi's day were. We can add to it that we think (under delusion) that we're better off.

The question for night, why did God go silent for about 400 years between Malachi and Jesus? I don't know. Is it that He had stated His case, protected His Word, and turned away from mankind? Maybe He had completed all He felt He needed to prior to Jesus.

We as a group decided to start with Hosea in July (2nd Sunday) and work through the minor prophets.

June 19, 2011 Leviticus 22-25

2011-06-19T19:03:00.000-07:00

We had seven for Wordlisteners and read and discussed Leviticus 22-25.

Chapter 22: We learned about the priest's portion of the offering and who could eat it. People would offer to God, but the priest would get to eat it, he had to be careful that he didn't profane the Lord by taking the sacrifice lightly. It is also reiterated that God wants flawless animals for sacrifice. Part of it is that Jesus is the perfect sacrifice, so example after example of a perfect sacrifice is given and required. On another level it is about obedience, and giving to God our best rather than our seconds. We had a discussion on tithing, God doesn't need the money, its rather about obedience. Everything we have materially is His anyway, the only thing we can truly offer is our right to ourselves. Tithing is to teach us obedience and to practice/make a habit of giving up our right to ourselves.

Chapter 23: Tells us to keep the sabbath, and do no work. It was interesting to me that much discussion and defining was done by the Pharisees to define what work is. They took the command and made it their religion or part of it. God's intent was a day we focus on Him. He wants relationship with us so it makes sense. Based on our discussion and the various ways people think the sabbath should be observed I think the intent to this day is still sometimes missed.

We also read and discussed the feasts, the Holy days set forth by God. They are Passover (now Easter), the day of Pentecost (modern version) 50 days after Passover. The day of Atonement, which like Easter varies from year to year. It is commanded to have this, but there isn't a modern holy day that corresponds to it. Potentially it could be the day the Lord returns. Not that any man knows the day or hour, we do see the signs for the right season. The booths or living in tents are mentioned also.

Chapter 24: The bread of the presence and the lamp, kept going perpetually is described. After this is probably the most oft quoted scripture - an eye for an eye. Jesus added to this section by saying love your enemy, turn the other cheek. He (Jesus) was talking about evil people out to harm Christians or persecute them. It was meant as a witness to them such that ALL may come to a saving knowledge of Christ. Eye for and Eye is still applicable in that for some things making amends is required and people are accountable for their actions. If you kill and know that your life will also be required then it can't be anything but a deterrent. The one standard is also of God who hates double standards.

A man in this chapter cursed God and was ultimately stoned. It is God's world, and the man was God's creation, who cursed his Maker. This is a sign of someone that wants their own way, even to be like God, and we all have our moments. We need to focus on being submitted to His will and desire.

Chapter 25: The year of Jubilee and the Sabbatic year. These were designed by God to give the land rest. The division of the lands and the Jubilee was a time for families to return to what God had promised them. So a life of hardship gets restored from time to time. I have a Jewish acquaintance who isn't sure what tribe he is a part of. He also said most Jews don't know. Another interesting point is that Jubilee wasn't ever celebrated as it was outlined here. Parts of it have been, often lands are left to rest, etc. Not fully restored tribes to their land. It sounds like at this point it can't happen unless God initiates it. In that case 6000 years of not having a Jubilee year will mean 1000 Jubilees have been missed. Christ will reign for 1000 years (making up for the missed Jubilees?). Its also a time when people look out for each other putting people ahead of wealth. Don't charge interest, see a poor countryman- give him food. This chapter very well could point to what Christ's reign will be like on a day to day basis.

I can see why Jubilee wasn't celebrated as outlined. Every 7 years the crops from one year would have had to go two years. On the Jubilee year it would made the crops had to go three years. God plainly promised provision, but we as people now, just as then, are not fully obedient to Him who created us and this world we live in.

This leaves us with two chapters, and the group decided I get to pick the next book to study. I prayed about it and the "all scripture is for edification" came to mind. I acknowledge the truth of that and hope God will show me something specific.

June 12, 2011 Leviticus 17-21

2011-06-12T18:04:00.000-07:00

We had 6 for Wordlisteners and we discussed Leviticus 17-21.

Leviticus 17: Sacrifices should be brought to the tent of the Lord. This is more detail and in depth to "have no gods before Me". God wants to be the our only God and he wants things done certain ways - to train us in obedience to Him rather than do our own thing. God also says the blood is life, and it should not be eaten.

Leviticus 18: God is about to remind His people of immoral practices that they saw in Egypt and that happened in the land He was giving them. Because of these practices the people are being spewed out, and if we ignore God and practice them we will be spewed out too. We are not to have sex with blood relatives of our blood relatives or relatives through marriage. Furthermore we are not to have sex with blood relatives of those we have had sex with - the example given is two blood related women. Furthermore no relations with a woman during menstruation, and a reminder not to have adultery either - have sex with someone married to someone else. Sex with animals is also prohibited. Then we are informed that sacrificing our children (made in the image of God) is profaning God- I can't help but think of all the rationalizations given for abortion. People who do this defile their land which then spews them out.

Chapter 19: Continues reiterating and giving deeper explanation of the 10 commandments. Honor parents for instance.

Sundry laws are next, don't reap to the corners nor glean, but rather leave for the poor. The wisdom of this is striking. Someone who was poor and in need could go gather what they needed, and probably only what they needed, leaving some for others. Those with too much pride would have to re-think their beliefs or starve. Our more sophisticated solution is to reap everything and glean all and turn it into money that we can send to the poor every month, so they can maintain their pride. The trouble with this system is that the checks are never "enough".

Interestingly we are not to bear a grudge against others, use just weights and measures, etc. We can correct but we are not to hate. Mediums and spiritists are not to be consulted

When entering the land for 3 years don't eat the fruit of planted trees. The fourth year is holy to the Lord, then the fifth year its for eating.

Leviticus 20: Those that sacrifice their children are to be put to death. God will turn His back on those that do, or consult mediums. Those who commit adultery, incest, homosexuals, marries a relative of his wife, or those that have sex with animals or try to, and mediums are to be put to death. Its part of separating the clean from unclean and not profaning the Lord. We should concentrate on His desires rather than our own. His desires are for our good and fulfillment, and yet we don't accept that. We think we know better than God. We are to be set apart, those wanting His way and willing to be obedient to Him are set apart.

Chs 18 and 20 fit the definition of hate speech, but it is important to realize God is perfectly able to execute His judgments, He doesn't need us too. These are reminders that this kind of living and beliefs are un-fulfilling dead ends. They cause great pain and hardship, its the way the Creator made it.

Leviticus 21: Priests are to take their duties seriously. Above family duties. Our relationship to God is to be closer than any other relationship in our lives. If we have an issue, where else should we go but to God? If we have Him in the proper place relationally? It seems harsh, but in a proper relationship to God, all others will fall into place. If they don't seem to, then there might be that the family member or other has some issue that God desires to deal with them about, and any hurt we experience may be us trying to put that relationship ahead of God.

Priests had to be defect free, this clearly points to Jesus who was the perfect high Priest and subsequent sacrifice that these regulations point to.

When we accept Jesus and enter into relationship with Him we are made right with God, and He no longer sees the physical defects that we may have in our earthly bodies.

Our hour being up, we thanked the Lord for His insight into His word, and we'll begin at Ch 22 next time.

May - Word listeners- through Levitcus 16

2011-05-30T06:23:00.000-07:00

Wordlisteners has met the last three weeks. On the 15th there was 5, on the 22nd there was five, and on the 29th there was 6.

We have read and discussed through Leviticus 16. Our take on it is the seriousness of the Lord about our standing in relationship with Him. Very detailed process for gaining it, and it clearly points to Jesus. The sacrifices are about restoring our relationship, and its clear from the reading we all fall short.

In terms of uncleanness or leprosy, the Lord gives instructions for clean living, but at a deeper level God wants His best for us, and we are likely to settle for less than God's best. The chapters on leprosy identification in people, garments and houses show us that we are all potentially in a place where we shouldn't be, a place of decay and rot- the result of sin.

Aaron's sons dying before the Lord because they did their own thing, the unprescribed, is a lesson for us all. God wants things a certain way, and yet we look for the easy. We have a human disposition of selfishness and wanting our own way, and we justify our actions along those lines. Yet it is often opposed to God's way, and He is God - not us so He gets the final say.

The blood of the sacrifices on the ear the right thumb and right big toe is a marvelous visual that points to Jesus, whose blood was shed for us. We have to hear God (ear), do the things of God that He tells us (hand) and go where God sends us (foot). The blood being sprinkled is showing that God will not accept us without blood, ultimately of Christ, sprinkled or covering us.

May 8, 2011 Leviticus 1-5

2011-05-10T05:32:00.000-07:00

We had 5 for Wordlisteners and shared some campfire baked pineapple upside down cake. Next week we'll continue starting in chapter 6.

Leviticus starts out with sacrifices and the procedure for making them. This is all about being in good standing before God. One of the striking things is that the animals have to be "without defect". Ultimately the sacrificial animal is going to be burned up, and since animals represented wealth of the day, its similar to us burning money. A couple things stand out - first is the cost - individually to the person making the sacrifice. It certainly represents a potential loss of income in putting God first. This theme is reinforced, sacrifices require salt, the normal amount. Salt was not as plentiful in that day, and as recently as the civil war in the US battles were fought over getting or protecting salt supplies. Again its wealth or personal sacrifice that some of the toil of our hands is burned up in making us acceptable to God. Honey and yeast are not allowed as part of the offerings, both are not things we make, but rather use or take advantage of, so the cost to us may be minimal.

Later in the Bible Saul kills a nation at the direction of God, but instead of killing their animals as directed he holds them back for sacrifice. Where is the cost? God gave those people into his hands, they raised the livestock, all Saul and the Israelites did was take them.

Often times we get caught up in our wealth or our things, and God commanded us to put nothing before Him. At the end of the age all our works will be tested by fire, and only those things rightly related to God will come through it. The sacrifices of Leviticus are an example of potential things put before God, that He wants put second to Him. Just like the animals burning on the alter, the things of this world are also not lasting. The soothing aroma is our obedience in putting God first - in His rightful place, that pleases Him.

Another striking thing you notice in the sacrifices is that the sin is transferred to the animal before it is killed. This points to Jesus in that all our sins were transferred to Him so we could be rightly related to God, and continue to live in this life.

Then there is the detail of the sacrifice and the complete use of the animal, no part left over, all put toward God. This shows God's desire for us to be fully committed to Him, and as the sacrifices are made we show our full commitment to Him. The detail of the sacrifice, everything must be done a certain way and in a certain order. To me that speaks clearly to the fact that God doesn't take our commitment to Him trivially and we shouldn't either. There is upfront cost in sacrifice (loss of things), and then they are not easily accomplished which involves time and attention to detail which is opposed to our sinful me first approach that doesn't want to be bothered by doing things for others.

The process is exact and detailed, and some sacrifices could be avoided by having a right relationship to God, so the detail of them also provides a deterrence of sorts. However its made clear in Leviticus that all of us have fallen short, all of us have sinned. There are sins we commit that we aren't aware of, and nobody is exempt.

This sets the stage for God to send Christ, to take upon Himself our sins, to cost God a great deal in order to bring us back into fellowship with Him. A very precise and exact- non-trivial way for us to be restored to fellowship with Him. Something we all would be better off with and need- putting Him first rather than our self or the cares of the world.

Feb. 27, 2011 Zechariah 11-14

2011-02-27T17:12:00.000-08:00

We had six for Wordlisteners tonight, and we finished up Zechariah. We discussed the notes for chapter 10, which we read last week. Then read and discussed Chapters 11-14. The blindness that occurs and confusion to the army that attacks Jerusalem can be quite plausibly explained by having technology currently not work. We all look forward to God being among us and on the throne in Jerusalem.

Our next meeting will be May 8th starting Leviticus.

Hearts on Fire will be from March 13- April 17- we hope many people will come out.

Zechariah 10

In Chapter ten it says ask the Lord for rain, and He will give it. Anything we
need we should ask of Him. After that is the example of asking teraphim
(household idols) and people which cause us to wander like sheep without
direction. The Lords anger is kindled against those who are supposed to be
leading the people because they have become to interested in their own selves.
The Lord Himself will visit Judah and from there will come what the flock needs
and He will be with them. He (the Lord) will call them together, and when He
the Lord scatters them they will remember Him, and He will bring them back.
After Jesus, the Jews did end up being scattered, and now again have their own
land.

He brings them back until no room can be found. A forecast of the return of
scattered people on a greater magnitude than what had returned in Zechariah's
day. A very crowded grouping of Jews - more than the nation of Israel can
literally hold?

Then they will pass through the sea of distress, but God will be with them, and
they will walk with Him.

Zechariah 11

Pasture the flock doomed to slaughter, some will be enslaved, the Lord will
allow some men to fall into another's power, and He will not deliver them. The
shepherd of the doomed flock (also called afflicted) took two staffs. Favor
and Union were the names of the staffs. To realize affliction is to know of
ones' condition before God.

This seems to be pointing back to the original selection of Israel by God, He
gave them His favor and unity (all twelve tribes). It could also apply to the
returning nation from exile a singleness of people and His favor required to
rebuild the temple.

Then the annihilation of three shepherds in one month, has this happened? Who
are the three? Could it be Jesus and the two witnesses at the end of the age?
They could all three die in the same month, they are all sent from God to give
a message to His people. God became impatient waiting, and His people did not
show any interest in truly following His ways.

What is to die -let die, what is to be annihilated (killed) -let that happen,
and those who are left will eat each other during famine. This is similar to
what was predicted for the fall of Jerusalem, but it was written after the
fall, and after the exile.

The Lord takes away his favor which allows the Jews (His people) to be put
under the control of kings- which appear to be end times. Although until the
UN decided to create them a nation, they had been under the rule of kings, so
maybe God's favor was taken away at the crucifixion of Jesus?

The afflicted of the flock - those that know they need God saw the crucifixion
and realized it was God's plan? 30 pieces of silver was the price Judas was
given to betray Jesus, the value of a woman of His age in Leviticus 27:3-4.
The price given for Jesus was given to the potter.

The Union staff is broken, the breaking up of the tribes, and particularly
Judah off from the kingdom. The initial kingdom under Soloman was ultimately
split after his death, and since they were considered one nation returning from
exile, it seems to say it will happen again.

Any people can have different factions, and since the next sentence talks about
a shepherd that does not care for the flock, but only himself. This could
point to the Roman destruction of Jerusalem after the Jesus crucifixion, and
also seems to point to the anti-christ (of a revived Roman empire). Blind and
with a withered arm? The physical imparities are not mentioned in Jeremiah.
The arm is a symbol of military might, and the eye is a symbol of intellect, so
the worthless shepherd will have a focus on his available military might and
his intellect.

Zechariah 12

The Lord will bring the focus of the world to Jerusalem, and it will cause it
to be sieged. All the nations will be gathered against it. When that happens
He will strike those attacking with blindness. Those in Judah will realize the
Lord is helping them.

A couple observations- a worldwide turning by Christians to Christ, and
proclaiming as Jesus did that He is the only way to the Father (Creator God)
will readily focus the world's attention on Jerusalem (His city). Those who
want their own way and not God's will then attack - because they deny the
truth, and don't want to hear truth.

Judah and not Israel is mentioned so it may be plausible to expect Jewish
factions. Striking the attackers with blindness, either physically each
soldier or in terms of not being informed of current battlefield information
would definitely even seemingly overwhelming odds. It points more toward
blindness, it could also be that even though the kings sent soldiers to
annihilate Judah, the soldiers question, and choose to look out for their own
interests. Technology is definitely an idol, and the "eyes" if you will of
those who depend on it. Rendering it useless in battle would make people blind.

Judah will recognize it as God's help and be saved, this is end times for sure.
They will mourn Jesus, and realize a poor choice was made by people at the time
Jesus first came. Back in Ch 11 the Lord grew impatient waiting on us (people)
to choose Him, and so He acted. He has been ready to act since the fall of
man, but longed for us to reach out to Him and welcome Him into our hearts.

The nations that attack Jerusalem will be destroyed, which may not be all
nations, but a significant force for sure. People from nations will be
destroyed, but not all the people from a nation as we will see later. Mourning
nationwide will happen as they accept the reality that we are fallen, and God's
ways are best in all cases.

The families mourning separate from the wives?? Husbands and wives support
each other, they are often a crutch we lean on to get us through difficult
times, maybe in this mourning each will have to face it completely alone, as
individuals internally contemplating their own choices. The only support is a
turning to and realizing God.

Zechariah 13

End times fountain opened in Jerusalem for sin and impurity- an end to sin.
The idols in the land will be cut off and remembered no more. The prophets and
unclean spirits will be removed too, there will be no need for a prophet of
God. Those that continue to prophesy (speak for God allegedly) will be pierced
through. Those that continue are false prophets, and these prophets will be
ashamed of their visions (because they won't happen), and when they are pierced
they will have a clear mark of their deeds.

Strike Jesus, and scatter the sheep. Happened at the crucifixion. Of the
scattered, two parts of the scattered sheep will be cut off and perish. The
third part He will refine them and bring to Himself. They will call on Him and
He will answer. These people will claim the Lord is their God.

6 million Jews in Israel currently, I wonder how many were scattered?

Zecharaiah 14

Spoil taken from the Jews will be divided among them. Nations gathered against
Jerusalem city captured, and houses plundered, and half the city into exile,
the other half not cut off. Could this have been Rome when the destroyed
Jerusalem or was that a foreshadow of what has yet to happen? The Lord will
fight against the nations that plundered Jerusalem and sent people to exile.

As part of this the Mount of Olives will be split in a such that part moves
north and another part south. It will be like a great earthquake and people
will flee. There will be no light, darkness as in Egypt. There will be light
in the evening, the Lord will be the light. Living water will flow from
Jerusalem to the east and the west.

The Lord will be king of all the earth, the only one. The land will be a plain
and people with live in it and there will be no curse, Jerusalem will be secure.

The plague of those that go to war against Jerusalem (prior to this it appears)
is that their flesh will rot while they stand, eyes rot in their sockets, and
tongue will rot in their mouths. This plague will also apply to the animals of
those who come up against Jerusalem.

In the end times there will be panic, and each will raise their hand against
another. Sounds like anarchy, and crisis brings anarchy really quick.

Judah will fight at Jerusalem and gather great wealth from the surrounding
nations.

The people who attack Jerusalem will not be everyone, and those that are left
when the Lord is reigning will go up for the Feast of Booths and to worship the
Lord. Those who don't face drought and the plague mentioned earlier.

The Feast of Booths commemorates the wandering of Israel after the Lord
delivered them from Egypt. All men are to bring an offering to the Lord. The
Lord delivered His people from the worthless shepherd. He saved them, redeemed
them, are the people grateful? When the Lord's kingdom does come, are you
ready to honor Him as King? Are you ready to sacrifice of yourself to honor
Him? Why not start now?

Jerusalem is His, and all the vessels are for our use in honoring Him. The
Canaanites will no longer be in the house of the Lord. In Judges 1:27 on the
Canaanites are recorded as still being in the land after the conquest by
Joshua. The Lord promised the land to the Israelis, and He brings it to pass.
He also promised to be their God, and He is. He also promised to dwell among
them (He is within us), and now physically among us as well.

Feb 20th 2011- Zechariah 6-10

2011-02-25T19:13:00.001-08:00

We had four for Wordlisteners on the 20th, and we discussed Zechariah 6-9 and read Zechariah Chapter 10. Come quickly Lord Jesus.

We also discussed the next book we intend to study. It was decided to study Leviticus. One important thing to read Leviticus in light of is how the commands of God to His people foreshadow the coming of Christ. Also the intent of the sacrifices and rules for living as they pertain to us living as Christians today. What was the intent?

It should be a very interesting study, and it will begin in Late April. After this Sunday (2/27), group is taking off the next seven weeks as our church does Praise and worship, followed by Hearts on Fire. Hearts on Fire is when the lay speakers of the church will speak each Sunday night leading up to Easter.

Notes Chapter 6-9

Zechariah 6

Four war chariots patrolling the earth executing God's judgments. They have
been in the presence of God. God sends them out Himself. The ones going north
The black ones have appeased God's wrath in the northern lands.

The coronation of Joshua is a symbolic merging of the house of David
(leadership of the people) with the priestly line. This is done by the Branch
or Messiah (Jesus). Ruler and priest. Jesus will build the temple of the
Lord. Leviticus 26:11-12 Is this a physical temple? Possibly, but our bodies
are temples of the Holy Spirit. For God to make His dwelling among us could
and probably does mean within us. As other Christians allow God to shine forth
through them, we will see God walking among us.

Those from far off will come and build the Temple of the Lord. Physical
building or those people as part of the Church being in a remote location from
Jerusalem letting God's light shine through them. This will only happen if
they completely obey the Lord their God. We as Christians need to move toward
Him, develop our relationships continuously, and go deeper, or we may never see
this.

Zechariah 7

Time stamp, forth year of Darius. A question about fasting during the fifth
month which they did in exile, mourning the loss of the temple. As the temple
is getting rebuilt they question to continue the practice. The Lord's response
was to question their intention of the fast. Were they really seeking to draw
closer to Him or had become a ritual? A similar chapter exists in Isaiah (58)
We eat for self, to give that up is to practice denying self.

What God intended was for it to draw us closer to Him. Denying self creates a
void we should be filling with God. It can however feed selfishness through
pride when we marvel at what we are able to accomplish. At that point fasting
becomes a ritual of self exaltation, and actually feeds our selfishness.

Dispense true justice, practice kindness and compassion. These are selfless
traits that should be developed through the practice of fasting and truly
drawing nearer to God. So are not oppressing the widow, orphan, stranger, or
poor and not devising evil against another.

The people before the exile were warned- multiple multiple times, and closed
their ears. Seemingly not hearing. In our minds we are quick to rationalize
that not hearing the Lord means we don't have to obey Him, we can then do the
selfish things we want to do, causing almost assuredly the hurting of another.
In our hearts we know what God wants, and He knows us better than we know
ourselves, and we do hear from Him whether we deny it or not. Furthermore He
knows we have heard Him whether we acknowledge it or not. Do we want to stand
before Him at the end of the age and deny we heard something from Him that He
both knows He told us and knows that we heard?

From the this life standpoint God knows we heard Him, and He knows we are
falsely denying that we did, and thus are disobedient. Through the course of
our selfish actions God lets things happen to us that will cause us to cry out
to Him. Which He acknowledges He hears, but then He pretends He does not hear.

Now it follows that our selfish actions cause unpleasant circumstances, and God
knows how to get our attention. This in no way means that bad circumstances
are the result of selfish actions- which is the lessen of Job. Someone in bad
circumstances may be there as a result of pretending not to hear God (selfish),
or may be in bad circumstances because the Lord is wanting them to come into a
deeper relationship with Him, and bad circumstances often get our attention and
our focus on God.

Zechariah 8

The Lord is jealous for Jerusalem and will return to Zion and dwell there.
This sounds physical, but part of it also means He will dwell in the hearts of
His people. Old women and old Men, and children playing represent a city at
peace and secure. The remnant of His people may have a hard time seeing this,
and the thought of God actually dwelling in Jerusalem - based on all our
experiences does seem unrealistic from our standpoint, but not too difficult or
unrealistic for Him, the creator of it all and us all.

God will pull the remnant of His people back to Jerusalem, and will be their
God. Therefore let your hands be strong, we should be expecting and planning
and building the temple in preparation for the Lord's return. If we wait on
Him, He may further delay because He is waiting for us to act in faith- whether
we realistically can see it or not.

God will again bless His people and make them blessing to the world. Just like
their disobedience brought about wrath, He looked ahead to the day He was to do
good for them. He instructs them to act: speaking the truth, judging with
truth, don't devise evil against others, do not love perjury. Hate what He
hates.

The Lord says the days of fasts will become days of feasts. People will seek
the Lord and will so love truth and peace. They will seek the Lord at this
time, and as His people we should start now. The Lord will bless these
relationships and that will draw even more people into desiring to know God.
Isn't this what He wants.

Zechariah 9

This chapter seems to forecast the Greek invasion by Alexander the great, which
happened 200 years later. The cities referred to fell in the order listed.
Tyre was partially destroyed by the Babylonians - the part that was on the
mainland. The Babylonians gave up, and Alexander the great took the rubble
from the destroyed land city, and built a bridge to the island city and
destroyed it. Even though Alexander invaded Palestine, he did not conquer
Jerusalem. He camped around His house, protecting it.

Then a vision of Jesus entering Jerusalem. Which happened prior to his
betrayal and crucifixion (which will be referred to in a future chapter). It
also shows Him setting up His kingdom at the end of the age, which hasn't
happened yet.

The Lord runs all these things together several times. Is He waiting for His
people to walk in His ways, at least start, and will then come. If His people
truly do walk in His ways then people will have to make a clear choice, which
would lead to desparation on the part of those that refuse to follow Christ.
Those that so don't believe they would be willing to attack the people of God
in order to protect themselves. They too however are created by God and He has
given them a choice. They like us have taken not listening to God as a reason
to do their own thing.

Feb 13th- Daniel 12, Zechariah 1-5

2011-02-13T17:43:00.000-08:00

Wordlisteners met tonight and we had six in attendance. We finished up Daniel
chapter 12 and started Zechariah, completing the first five chapters.

Our next meeting is next week, and with Hearts on Fire coming up for 6
weeks, we will probably mot meet after the 27th of February for 6 more
weeks.

My notes are attached:

Daniel Chapter 12

As bad a chapter eleven was and the Jewish people had endured two kings (Syria
and Egypt) fighting for generations, the end will be far more distressing.
Everyone in the book (book of life?) will be rescued. The dead will come back
to life, judgement will happen. People will have the insight of God and shine
brightly.

Seal up the book until the end time, when knowledge increases and many go back
and forth (travel?). How long until the end - time, times and half a time.
The power of the Holy people must be shattered before the events are completed.
Many will be purged, others will be refined and purified. 1290 days from
abomination of desolation, at 1335 days blessing will occur- the millenial
reign.

Daniel is going to enter rest (die), but arise for his portion at the end of
the age.

The group discussed after this that as men gain more knowledge they feel they
need God even less- having the answers. Being in the end times is highly likely.
The we switched to Zechariah.

Zechariah was a younger contemporary of Haggai. They both returned from exile
and were part of the process of rebuilding the temple. The book was written
over about a 2 year period of time.

Zechariah 1

This was after initially returning from exile and beginning the work of
rebuilding the temple. As with any great undertaking time must be spent and
the wondering about the insignificance of their effort was starting to get down
the workers. Zechariah reminds them where they had been as a people- exile-
separated from God, and why. Through disobedience, and not listening, and the
Words God gave as a warning for disobedience caught up to them. He is
imploring them not to let it happen again.

Zechariah's vision were from angels talking rather than the moving of God's
spirit in the prophet's mind. The whole world was at rest - God regularly
patrols it. Maybe then under the rule of Persia allowing for Jerusalem to be
rebuilt. Maybe in the future under the rule of the Messiah allowing Jerusalem
to fulfill its mission.

Four horns are regarded as the nations that destroyed Israel and Judah. But
God would send craftsmen to destroy those that try and destroy His people.

Zechariah 2

A forecast of Jerusalem so populous it will overflow its walls- end times when
the city attains its purpose established by God. God will be in Jerusalem.
When God is in Jerusalem many nations will join Him and become His people.

Zechariah 3

Joshua the high priest - dirty (sinful man) but made clean (by God) in one day.
A foreshadowing of the work of Jesus on the cross. If the high priest will
walk in God's ways and perform His service (this is obedience- doing things
God's way, and not as we think or in a way that helps us).

The Branch is coming, iniquity will be removed in one day, and we'll all invite
our neighbors to sit under our fig trees. How well do we know our neighbors,
and is it such that we would invite ALL of them to gather with us?

Zechariah 4

Zechariah is asked by the angel what he sees. He sees lamps and asks the angel
of their meaning. Lamps or candlesticks are the light bearing qualities of
God's house. First we see this in the Tabernacle, then the temple, then later
represented by the Church. The two olive trees represent a priestly line
(Joshua) and a leadership line (Zerubbabel), similar to the two witnesses in
Revelation. Witnesses for God at the end of the age.

The message to Zerubbabel is not by might or power but by the Spirit.
Zerubbabel is of the line of David beginning the work after exile that will be
repeated in great grandeur later by another in the line of David. His work is
a foundation block to the work of God.

We must seek God individually to gain the strength to promote Him thoroughly,
running and not getting weary of the work He has laid before us. He's not done
so we can't be either.

Zechariah 5

Zechariah is asked again what he sees, and this time it is a flying scroll
going throughout the land removing sin by destroying sinners. Oaths are part
of this- whether for good or bad- God is not in favor of us making them.
Leviticus(5:4), a thoughtless oath for good or bad is sin.

Then Zechariah sees an Ephah which is considered another representation of the
removal of sin. In this, sin is represented by a woman, but by women it is
removed signifying possibly that Messiah (or the Branch), who would remove sin
in one day, would be brought into the world through woman without help of man.
This sinful basket is taken to Babylon (Shinar)and held up.

Jan 16, 2011 Daniel 9-11

2011-01-16T16:46:00.000-08:00

Wordlisteners met tonight and we had 4 in attendance. We read and discussed Daniel chapters 9-11. Its interesting to read about Daniel a 70+ year old man who walked with God his entire life, and was still fearful during encounters. Its also amazing of the glimpses we get in the prophetic books of how what has happened in the past will be similarly repeated in the future.

Next week - we're taking the night off, and will meet again on 1/30. After Daniel we intend to start Zechariah.

Notes from tonights discussion.

Daniel Chapter 9

Daniel prays, based on what he has read in scripture. Do we pray for the soon
return of the Lord Jesus or along the lines of His will, or are we more self
focused? Daniel counted the years Jeremiah recorded for the time of the exile
of His people and prayed accordingly. He also fasted.

His prayer fits the form Jesus outlined for us to use. He tells God of His
greatness and faithfulness, and then turns to the condition of men, including
himself (Daniel) in the poor or fallen condition we are in.

The overthrow of Jerusalem was predicted by Moses if the people rejected God,
and Daniel is admitting the people had. Even when the overthrow of Jerusalem
happened we (the people) still did not seek God or turn from our ways to His.

Daniel is asking God to turn and look at His desolate sanctuary in Jerusalem.
Its interesting that He was there but turned His back to His people and
Jerusalem fell. Daniel is asking Him only to turn back around. He isn't
asking based on the merits of the people, but on the Holiness of God's nature
and His compassion. If we wait on the merits of the people, it will never
happen, thy Kingdom come- its what we should want- God here with us. A world
submitted to His will.

Daniel prays for Jerusalem to be restored, in the proper frame of mind, and
instantly the answer is sent, and Daniel is going to get the entire what will
happen before Jerusalem is properly or fully restored. Seventy weeks is
decreed for his people (the jews) and the city of Jerusalem to finish the
transgression and put an end to sin (not doing things God's way), and bring in
everlasting righteousness (reign of the Lord on earth).

Two time periods, 62 weeks and 7 weeks. The 62 weeks is over when Messiah is
cut off (crucified- rejected by men). The city will be destroyed again by the
people of the prince that is to come (anti-christ - Roman kingdom). The end of
the santuary and city will come with flood (of people?), and periods of
desolation. He (the prince who is to come - anti-christ) will make a covenent
with the many (Jews and Christians?) for one week but in the middle desolation
and complete destruction will come.

Daniel Chapter 10

Darius (Mede) replaced by Cyrus (Persian), in the third year of Cyrus another
message. He had been mourning and fasting for three weeks, because he had seen
an initial vision from God about his people, and received another vision from
God after the three weeks. This was the explanation. Those people who claim
to "know" what is going to happen, did they fast and mourn and seek God in the
way Daniel did? Were/are they as faithful to God as Daniel was? We really
can't know the hearts of others, one way or the other.

Daniel sees another vision after 24 days- what dedication to purpose to see an
initial vision so distressing that he would mourn three weeks, would we last 24
minutes? Daniel saw a vision others near him felt a dread and ran away. He
had no strength and fell on his face upon hearing the sound of the words. After
a life of walking with God, Daniel is still weak in the knees when He hears
from God. Daniel is helped to his knees, and told not to fear.

Daniel had sought understanding of the things of God (his previous visions),
and this angel was sent but delayed 21 days. This initial vision of what will
happen to his people in the future made him so distraught and weak. Does what
we think will happen in the 70th week cause us the same distress? How was
Daniel's heart for his people different than ours? This angel came to
strengthen him, and yet is in a fight with principalities and powers of
darkness - yet he will tell Daniel what is true and inscribed.

Daniel Chapter 11

All future, but starting from a point Daniel is aware of. Sometimes called
inter-testament history, Daniel wrote it 400 years before these things happened.
Three kings in Persia, then a 4th - the richest - who will attack Greece.
Xerxes invaded and was defeated 480 BC.

A mighty king will arise and do as he pleases - Alexander the Great. His
kingdom will be broken up into 4 parts. His kingdom was divided into Greece,
Asia minor, Syria (north) and Egypt (south). King of south's son becomes king
of Syria and was the most powerful of the successors.

A daughter Berenice was given by southern king (Egypt) to northern King (Syria),
but she was killed. Her brother then invaded Syria and won in retaliation.

Later the Syrian King attacked Egypt but was defeated, 14 years later he
returned with an even greater army and conquered Palestine and Egypt. He then
gives his daughter (Cleopatra) in marriage to the king of Egypt (Ptolemy V)
hoping to get complete control of Egypt, but his daughter stands with her
husband. The king of the North Antiochus then invades Asia Minor and Greece to
be defeated by Rome. He returned to his own land and was slain.

Antiochus Epiphanes - not the rightful heir to Antiochus got the throne by
deception and treachery, then made himself master of Egypt- the richest of the
kingdoms- something Antiochus his predecessor could not do. He is friendly
towards the king of the south Ptolomey VI (Cleopatra's son), but only for gain.
Antiochus Epiphanes returning from Egypt will attack Jerusalem killing 80,000
and selling some into slavery. Later he returns to Egypt but is forced to
withdraw by the Romans. He takes his defeat out on Jerusalem, stopping
sacrifices and desecrating the temple. This happened in part or maybe as a
glimpse of the future but not fully. Godly people with insight will opposed
him and were slain. The Godly were/are slain to purge and make some pure until
the end time (which again - a glimpse was given).

From versus 36-45 partly Antiochus Epiphanes, partly those who control the
temple sight, partly the anti-christ. This is end time happenings in Jerusalem
some of which may have happened at other various times in history. There will
be a culmination at the end. After all Daniel's vision is about ending sin.

2011-01-15T20:20:00.000-08:00

On January 9th, Wordlisteners resumed meeting. We had 4 in attendance and we read and discussed Daniel Chapter 5-8.

Here are the notes:
Daniel Chapter 5

This is a story relating the end of Babylon. A couple generations after
Nebuchadnezzar, and yet Daniel was still there. Belshazzar was drinking from
gold and silver vessels that had been dedicated to God and taken from the
temple many years earlier in Jerusalem. They are praising the gods of wealth
and things- sadly the primary focus of society today -wealth and things. Then
a hand appeared and wrote on the wall.

He was alarmed and sought interpretation, but none could. Only Daniel who
walked with God was able to interpret and see what was about to happen.
Telling people prophecy and what will happen will do no good, until they
develop and strengthen their relationship with Christ. That is what to pray
for. Daniel walked with God and he saw and could tell what was happening, no
other “wise” man, magician or conjurer could. Daniel was even known for being
able to solve difficult problems. They thought he had the spirit of the gods
or was magical, but it had to do with his relationship to God and that alone.
Having a relationship with God means He will show you things. He knows when
you're ready and He will lead your thoughts to understanding. It has nothing
to do with the person, God can do it with anyone that is faithful. To deny
that its possible is to deny the power of God.

Daniel acknowledges the king's position, and then talks about Nebuchadnezzar.
How great and powerful he was and yet he was humbled by God (7 years with the
mind of a beast- followed by repentance). Belshazzar knew the story and yet
ignored it, and exalted himself. Bringing in the temple vessels was the last
part. So his kingdom is about to be taken from him, the handwriting on the
wall is the warning (again that nobody could interpret but those that walked
with God. It happened that night, the Medes and Persians took over. Darius
the Mede was now king.

Daniel Chapter 6

Darius appointed rulers to help him run the kingdom and Daniel was one of them.
Daniel's reputation was solid, and additionally he distinguished himself. Not
because he was special, but rather that he followed God. Served Him and obeyed
Him.

Daniel's favor with the king made people jealous they wanted what he had
(coveting) but were not willing to submit to God and develop relationship with
Him. So they looked into his background and mannerisms, but could find no
fault. Are your habits and mannerisms such that you would not feel
uncomfortable in having anyone look over your shoulder at everything you do???
So they devised a plan to trap him based on his faithfulness to God. They
played to King Darius' pride who helped them out by not checking the facts, and
got him to make a decree that people could only pray to him. It takes a lot of
pride to decide you are the one with all the answers and that you are God.
Again an anti-christ example. He will go into the Temple dedicated to God and
proclaim himself god.

Then they caught Daniel breaking the decree as was his custom – fellowship in
prayer with God 3 times a day. Jesus often went to secluded places to pray-
getting away often. They informed the king, and even though he liked Daniel,
it would have been a sign of weakness to go back on his decree. Not many
leaders admit errors (prideful). So Daniel was thrown into the lions' den, and
it was sealed – like the tomb of Jesus. Like Jesus going to preach between His
death and resurrection and God being with Him, God was with Daniel in the
lions' den. Darius couldn't sleep but knew that the true God could save
Daniel. He followed it up by actively going the next morning to see if Daniel
had been protected. Daniel was over 70 years old at this point.

Daniel had been protected and was freed, and a decree made to fear God. Those
who meant Daniel harm were thrown in the lions' den along with their families
(children and wives). This seems cruel, but it is important to realize that
our evil intentions directly affect our families, just like our walking with
God actually blesses our families. Pride and coveting can bring us to the
point of being so self focused that we the very lives of our loved ones.
Daniel like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego had to decide and act in a manner
that either served God or man. The same choice awaits those in the tribulation
period, and really all of us on a day to day basis. Daniel went to the lions'
den like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego went to the fiery furnace trusting God
but unsure as to whether God would save them. God did and used their
faithfulness to get the rulers of the kingdoms of the day to send out decrees
affirming God in heaven.

Daniel Chapter 7

A first year of Belshazzar vision (70th year of Babylon) Daniel aged and
experienced and had walked with God a while. Essentially the same vision he
had interpreted of Nebuchadnezzar's dream when he was in his twenties. Four
beasts, the last most terrifying. These are the four world powers between
Daniel's time and the time of Jesus- when the Kingdom of God is begun. The
iron kingdom is Rome in power at the time of Christ and it will be revived at
the time of the end. A federation of kingdoms over which one ruler will gain
control or influence. This leader will (horn that springs among the 10 and
uproots three of the leaders) will make boasts, and be against the Most High.
Daniel simultaneously records that in heaven the Most High is on the throne and
the books are being opened (time of the end) while these boasts against God are
happening on the earth. Boastful words is a sign of talk but not action, this
king will be powerless in the things that matter, and won't do the things of
God. The anti-christ.

The three previous beasts had lost their dominion, but there is still a remnant
at the time of the end. These remnants will be around - the kingdoms present
during the millenial reign. Jesus is given dominion by God for the millenial
reign and other nations will serve Him.

The beasts are four kingdoms or four great kings, but its the saints of God,
those that submit to Him that will receive or inherit the enduring Kingdom.

The fourth beast is the anti-christ, and he'll wage war on the saints, and for
a season overpower them. God allows this, but as stated before He is in
complete control. At the right time He will step in and the saints will take
possession of the eternal enduring Kingdom.

This fourth kingdom and leader will "devour the earth" or dominate the earth
but not necessarily control every part. The anti-christ is a charismatic
leader who will arise out of a federation of kingdoms. He will probably
acknowledge the existence of God, and recognize at least in word the Power of
God. He will seemingly have answers and good ideas and recognize God as a
higher authority, but he will not do the things of God, and pride of self will
eventually lead to him blasphemes against God. He will deceive many for a
while until his pride shows his true heart or lack of fruits of the spirit. He
will be given worldy dominion over the saints as satan was given authority over
Job for three and a half years. He will be able to kill them, but God is
still in control even through that, and eventually will judge and annihilate
him.

The saints will be given sovereignty, and the kingdom Jesus started at the
cross will come into actual world rule.

Daniel was alarmed by his vision, he saw the unpleasantness of this time, and
the seeming helplessness of those that are the Lord's. It was more fearful to
him than what he had witnessed in 70+ years of life.

Daniel Chapter 8

Another vision for Daniel, making this a third vision of the future. This one
starts out with the transition between the second world power the Medo-Persian
and the third the Greeks. His Prediction is 200 years before it happened. He
also predicts that the Greek empire would be split into four kingdoms- which
happened.

We are looking back and comparing the historical record to the prophesy and we
see the accute accuracy of it. Prophecy tends to be unbelievable, and then it
happens and we see its confirmation.

Of the four parts of the greek empire the king of the South becomes very
powerful. Again predicted early, and this leader- generally considered to be
Antiochus Epiphanes - but also giving us a glimpse of anti-christ like behavior
in the end times. On account of transgression Antiochus then and anti-christ
soon was/will be allowed to trample Jerusalem, and the people of God will be
given over to him. His dominion will last 2300 days (7 years). The king of
the south did trample Jerusalem historically, killing many, so that little
piece of prophecy got fulfilled. Most of what is described and the time frame
has yet to happen though. God shows us glimpses in History with the worst (or
best depending on your relationship to God) to come yet to happen.

Daniel then gets an interpretation. The prophecy pertains to the time of the
end, that is said up front. The Ram is identified for Daniel as the
Medo-Persian empire (in his time just getting established). The goat
represents Greece (unheard of at that time), and the large horn being Alexander
the Great the first king (he established the Greek empire). When Alexander
died there was no strong leader so the greek empire did in fact split into four
parts, all weaker than the original whole. Predicted very accurately before it
happened.

Take a minute and predict what will happen in South Carolina next week, then a
week later see how you did. Will you do as well as Daniel did, and consider he
was a man like us. The prophecy came from God- who saw it happen and relayed
it back to Daniel.

In the latter part of the greek rule (Rome was now growing in influence at the
time of Antiochus Epiphanes and about to become the dominant world power. His
actions will blur in similarity to that of anti-christ. He is an insulting
individual but intriguing, which evidently caused people to put him into power.
This sounds very similar to a politician on the scene today. One that publicly
insults people, but yet people are intrigued by. This will be the character of
the one the Bible calls anti-christ. Abrasive and yet intriguing. His power
will be mighty but not be his own power (spiritual world help? ) and he will
destroy to an extraordinary degree and perform his will (note his and not
God's- selfish me first or my way attitude). He will destroy mighty men and
holy people, deceit will succeed, magnify himself, and destroy many at ease.
He will even oppose Christ - this isn't at this point Antiochus- who did kill
many in Jerusalem and descrate the temple in his time. Its interesting that
Antiochus did this after suffering a defeat at the hands of Rome. He went to
Jerusalem (place of God) and picked on the Jews there (at relative peace).
Maybe he did this because he was mad at God for his defeat and knew the source
of it.

Antiochus was broken and the anti-christ will be -"without human agency" - so
it will be God Himself that does it- this doesn't apply to Antiochus. The 2300
days doesn't seem to apply to Antiochus either.

This vision made Daniel very distraught, exhausted and sick for days. The
vision astonished him.

September 5, 2010

2010-09-05T18:44:00.000-07:00

One of our members was injured and is going through a long term recovery. Since it is significantly more difficult for him to attend, we have decided to put our meetings on hold. We will re-evaluate next month as his recovery progresses.

Daniel 1-4, August 15,2010

2010-08-22T11:52:00.000-07:00

We had two for Wordlisteners, and we discussed the first four chapters of Daniel. While this book is widely known for prophecy in later chapters, it seems to give glimpses into the way anti-christ will be in the last days. Maybe I'm incorrect, but the similarities are striking between the way anti-christ will behave, and the way Nebuchadnezzar did behave.

Daniel Chapter 1

Daniel is about a time of exile, during Babylonian then MedoPersian rule of God's people. Some of the stories in there everyone is familiar with, but why has God let this book endure. The easy answer is for the prophesy, the more difficult answer I believe is that it will give glimpses into what life will be like in the last days before the millennial reign.

Nebuchadnezzar besieged Jerusalem and it was given into his hand. He took the best that was in the city back to Babylon, people and goods. In stead of being concerned with everyone, the king of Babylon an example of anti-christ was only interested in what he felt would serve him best.

Nebuchadnezzar then wanted to indoctrinate them (particularly the young) into the ways of the Chaldeans. This served him by getting him good officials for his kingdom and potentially and only slightly (which is all it takes) deflecting the identity as God's chosen people from the exiles.

Daniel and his friends stayed true to their beliefs, additionally this chapter has the best example of conflict resolution I have ever seen and it was written thousands of years ago. Daniel stated his case, proposed a test or method of resolution, gave another the final decision after the test results and left the rest up to God. He didn't manipulate (which is often done, or argue his case leaving out unflattering details), but rather was simple, straightforward, and timely. He left it for God to act, and not only did God protect His people, he blessed them.

In the last days people will be faced with seemingly easy choices that effectively deny God, what will they do? He is an answer – Trust Him. Daniel as a result of this continued through several rulers and kingdoms.

Daniel Chapter 2

Nebuchadnezzar had an unsettling dream. Interestingly he used it as a newer not so well established ruler to his advantage. The paranoia of being a new leader caused him to demand that the dream be told followed by the interpretation. He decreed that all the magicians conjurers and sorcerers be killed if there wasn't one that could tell his dream and the interpretation. Daniel was considered in this category. He was recognized for his ability, and since they didn't believe it was God led they assumed it was magic. These people had rightly told Nebuchadnezzar that they couldn't know his dream, for nobody knows what happens in another man's dreams. They did say the gods could, but only the true God can, because the others are not gods. Daniel heard about it because he was to be killed, and he asked for time. Then he went to his friends to get them to pray with him that God would show them.

As to end times the anti-christ will look for answers wherever he can find them, and he will be unsettled about things at least early on.

God revealed the dream and interpretation to Daniel. Daniel praised God and not just slightly, he was truly grateful and not just in a moment of passing. Daniel went to the person appointed for killing the now “wise” men and told him not to kill them. He was then taken to the king. He gave God all the credit and said that only God and not man could do what he had requested. His dream was a glance at world history. Four major kingdoms (Babylon being the first). That they are all mentioned together means a common thread of some sort. One of the common ties is that the final kingdom may have attributes of the first. In this case a very charismatic leader like Nebuchadnezzar.

The fourth kingdom is struck by a stone cut “without hands”, and all of the kingdoms become as chaff. Without hands may mean that man is not involved, God doesn't need our help, He is sovereign and what He wants to happen will. That the kingdoms become chaff mean there will be nothing lasting from them. Four thousand years of human history and nothing enduring that is human. The only enduring things are the things of God.

This stone (without hands) will become a kingdom and will endure. The Kingdom of God brought in under Rome (not called by name) by Jesus, and will endure forever. Jesus will reign on earth one thousand years.

Nebuchadnezzar acknowledges God, after listening to Daniel state the dream and interpretation. He promotes Daniel who remembers his three friends. The anti-christ will probably acknowledge God as does the devil. Acknowledging and following are not the same, a good thing to keep in mind.

Daniel Chapter 3

In the last chapter Nebuchadnezzar acknowledged God, in this chapter he is having a bout of pride. The devil is proud, and it will lead to thinking you know better than God. Nebuchadnezzar makes a golden image, and requires people to bow down to it and the sound of music.

Daniel writes this but there is no mention of his presence, as being an important leader he may have been away on country business when this happened- its pure speculation. Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were there however and they didn't bow. In this story those that didn't bow were to be thrown into the fiery furnace of a man. Very similar to those in the end times who won't be able to trade except by taking the mark of the beast. In the end times those that do bow and do take the mark of the beast will be thrown into God's lake of fire. So in Daniel we see that Shadrach, Meshech and Abednego had to make a decision (an action of faith) that shows they follow God. In the end times all will have to make that decision to follow God or do the easy thing and follow man.

God will take care of His people in the end times as He did for Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. They had to go through the fiery furnace, but its better to go into man's fiery furnace with God, than God's fiery furnace with man. In an attempt to make his point Nebuchadnezzar had the furnace heated seven times more than normal (7 years of tribulation- being in the furnace of tribulation??) and those that threw them in Daniel's friends were burned up. Nebuchadnezzar made a decree that anyone who spoke against God would be torn limb from limb and have their house destroyed. In the end times, the anti-christ will seemingly be one who calls for the protection of God's people the Jews.

Daniel Chapter 4

This starts out with Nebuchadnezzar praising God, declaring the wonders of God and his everlasting Kingdom. He then has another troubling dream. Unlike the first dream Nebuchadnezzar relates the dream to his wise men, but nobody is able to interpret it. He is feeling more secure as a leader at this point maybe? Daniel comes before him and rightly interprets the dream. Daniel is fearful to interpret because it is specifically about Nebuchadnezzar, and its not flattering, but he does it.

Nebuchadnezzar's pride will cause him to lose his mind and be driven from mankind for seven years. The mind of a beast will be given to him. In the tribulation period that lasts seven years the anti-christ will be given the mind of the beast (the devil), and his pride will be exceedingly great. A man with all the answers, full of human wisdom acknowledging God but not doing things God's way. This will deceive many.

Nebuchadnezzar will keep the mind of the beast until he acknowledges that God is in control and not himself. At which point the kingdom will be restored to him. The anti-christ will not acknowledge that God is in control and be destroyed at the end of the tribulation period. Daniel invites Nebuchadnezzar to repent and turn from his ways, practice (do) righteousness that maybe this will be avoided.

One year later it was fulfilled, just as described, and seven years later Nebuchadnezzar acknowledged God and that He was in charge (even in his own personal life), and surpassing greatness was added. The Lord is able to humble the proud, even great leaders.

August 8, 2010 Ezekiel 45-48 (end)

2010-08-08T17:16:00.000-07:00

Wordlisteners was held tonight in the private home of two of our members. 6 people were present. We discussed the last four chapters of Ezekiel. It is normally taught that Jesus is the perfect sacrifice, and yet in some books with this one in particular - sacrifices are mentioned taking place in a temple as best as we can tell hasn't been built yet, and may very well be the temple in the millennial reign of our Lord.

We read, and we know that God has it under control. God sees everything at once, we're more chronologically based, so that may help explain. The fact that it survived into the Bible probably means it was meant for us in some way. Also born again believers still give which is an act of sacrifice. All of these things we discussed. Other things we are still not sure about.

We decided as a group to start Daniel next week. Below are the notes I made to finish up Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 45

The dividing of the land, the Lord's portion for Him and those that minister to Him and for Him. Then the prince or leader of Israel. The leader will no longer oppress the people, they will have an inheritance. They are to practice righteousness and justice, having just balances and scales. This seemingly hasn't happened yet, however Jesus will bring this about for sure during the millennial reign.

Now an offering the people give to the prince who then provides the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at all appointed feasts. The sacrifices from verse 18 on seem to apply to the rebuilt temple after exile. There is a cleansing of the sanctuary using sin offering, an atonement for the house- for those going astray, a Passover celebration, burnt offerings and sin offerings. Jesus sacrifice makes us right with God, but our offering for our sins may continue, or that this only applied for the time when the temple is initially rebuilt. Why was it saved for us? To point the sacrificial system to Jesus, and remind us of God's great love for us.

Ezekiel 46

The prince's offering, on new moons and Sabbaths, the leader shall worship before the Lord. He shall bring sacrifices and humble himself before the God of the universe, that gave him his position. The leader of the people of Jerusalem is to acknowledge God. His position is controlled by God. Does this establish a state religion? I don't think so, for no where in the Bible does it say to kill those that won't follow Christ, or won't acknowledge God. God wants all to come to Him. Calling for the killing of those that refuse to worship in a certain way is a tell tale sign that God is not being worshiped, but something else. Another god, a doctrine, or creed. Our God is perfectly capable of stopping the hearts of those that have made their final decision, or given their final answer.

This makes Christians easy targets, because we do hold out hope. Anyone that feels compelled to go along with Christian acts of worship may be being led by the Holy Spirit. God looks on the heart – on the intentions, there is nothing to be gained by going along in God's eyes, He wants your heart. If you feel threatened by men for not, then God is giving you an indication that your priorities align with pleasing men rather than God. A feeling guilty may be a personal acknowledgement that you do in fact recognize God. Christians are to do works before men such that God's light can be seen Matt 5:16. Public open acknowledgement of God in worship is a work.

The prince when worshiping goes out the way he comes in, the people worshiping are to pass through, not sure why. The prince has an inheritance to give sons, he no longer has to take from the people. This will keep God's people from being scattered from their possessions.

Then a reference to isolating sacrifices such as to not transmit holiness to the people- I'm not sure why.

Ezekiel 47

Water from the temple- a millennial glance forward. Water from south of the alter flowing east, a trickle of water turning into a flowing river. Flowing to the sea and making the sea fresh, teeming with fish. The only sea east of Jerusalem is the Dead sea Engedi on the west middle side, and Eneglaim on the southeast corner. Trees will grow beside the river, and the fruit will not fail. The fruit will come every month and the leaves for healing (Gen 2:9 and Rev 22:2).

The border described surrounds Lebanon an Israel, it shall be divided by lot between Israel and aliens in the midst. God promised aliens in the midst of Israel an inheritance along with the Israelites. This explains why these people don't want to leave. If they are there when the land is divided by lot then they will be in the inheritance. Is the church part of the aliens amongst Israel?

Ezekiel 48

The land is to be divided from North to South the following way. Dan(1), then Asher(2), then Naphtali(3), then Mannasseh(4), then Ephraim(5), then Reuben(6), then Judah(7), an allotment to the Lord subdivided for the sons of Zadok, the Levites, and common use, the city of the Lord is here, a piece for growing food, and a portion for the leader (prince) with the Sanctuary in the middle of his. Anything not designated is for the prince. South of that will be Benjamin(8) , Simeon (9), Issachar (10), Zebulon (11) and Gad(12).

Now a city description, three gates on each side (one for each tribe), 4500 cubits on each side. There are visuals available on the Internet.

If the Lord tarries what will happen to our beliefs? Our creeds? Our surety of His soon coming? We have to remember that He is God, He is sovereign and He will come at the best time. We would like to put Him in a box, but if we could He wouldn't be God.

Ezekiel 40-44 July 11, 2010

2010-07-12T19:02:00.000-07:00

We had 5 for Wordlisteners. Another church meeting was scheduled, and it overlapped our time. We discussed Ezekiel 40- 44. These are difficult chapters to reconcile with various beliefs. It has occured to us that like a lot of prophecy in the Bible these chapters have parts that have been fulfilled, some that may have been or may yet be (or both), and some that clearly has not been fulfilled. Since God sees without time, He had it recorded this way, whereas we like to see things along a time line. Its also clear that we don't have all the answers, but we worship the One who does.

We didn't make a decision about next weeks meeting. It seems another gathering has been planned that will overlap with our normal time. I am planning to be there in case some show up.

The week after will be Bible school, the week after that praise and worship. Realistically our next meeting might be August 8.

Notes
Ezekiel 40

The same day Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians, God brought Ezekiel there and gave him a vision. The vision turns out to be of the future (hasn't happened yet), but He wants us to live His Kingdom now or presently. Always waiting can make a person miserable- enjoy God now – walk with Him now.
A structure like a city and told to proclaim it to Israel, declare what he sees. We have to put forth the vision of the Kingdom of God -now – with justice and righteousness. Is that walking with God like Enoch? The structure like a “city”, but is the measurements of the Temple. An awesome building not yet built, but plans given the day of the destruction of the old Temple, so when Israel gets where they need to be they will be ready. As part of this provisions are made for burnt offerings, sin offerings and guilt offerings. Sacrifices were to be slaughtered on tables.
Jesus was the perfect offering for our redemption (redemption of man) and our atonement. A right standing with God. There will be sacrifices to God in the millennial reign, worship is a sacrifice to God. People acknowledging who God is will bring offerings and sacrifices, the sacrifice of praise for sure.

Ezekiel 41

Now the inner temple and the most Holy place paneled with wood. An alter of wood described as being before the Lord.

Ezekiel 42

Now the chambers of the temple are described. Holy chambers for the priests near the Lord. Millennial reign will have people who have not made a choice to follow the Lord Jesus. He will be teaching and instructing nations from Jerusalem. Some freewill it seems will exist. So priests near the Lord will have to be isolated and change clothes, this also may help explain the sacrifices. There will also be a division between Holy and profane. It may also be as with many things of the Lord -partially fulfilled at different times in History.

Ezekiel 43

The Glory of God comes from the east and fills the temple. This temple will be His footstool and there is no condition on Him staying if Israel will be obedient. Rather there is a statement that Israel will not defile His name. Furthermore He will dwell with them forever, Israel will put away harlotry. Harlotry or idolatry putting something before God.. This would place this temple in the millennial reign.
This new temple is described again on the very day of the destruction of Solomon's temple so that when Israel gets serious with God- by repenting and realizing their deeds they will know that God has been waiting for them. He has also been planning this day for many thousand years.
The alter of sacrifice is described, offerings will be required on this alter to purify it (or cleanse it). The alter must be atoned for, Jesus died for men not things. The alter was defiled and must be atoned for through sacrifice. Seven days of alter atonement (similar to seven years of tribulation period) and then burnt and peace offerings to the Lord will be acceptable. The idea of alter atonement is also similar to the idea of making restitution for sin. Paying back what was taken plus 20%.

Ezekiel 44

The east gate was shut because the Lord came through it to fill the temple with His glory. Hasn't happened yet. Not even in the temple rebuilt by after the Babylonian exile. Some people say this is done to keep people from worshiping the rising sun. Others a figurative return of the glory of the Lord to Jerusalem after exile.
The prince is clearly not Jesus, because he comes and goes but not as God. Not a king either but rather maybe a leader of the city. Jerusalem after the exile had rulers but it wasn't a kingdom. The visible glory of the Lord fills the temple, and the abominations of Israel are repeated.
Israel wasn't serious about God, they didn't treat Him as Holy. Uncircumcised profaned His sanctuary, they did not keep track of His Holy things, foreigners were actually put in charge of the Sanctuary. The Levites are then scolded, they went far from Him. This will not result in a loss of being priests, just that they won't minister to God. They are to keep charge of the house.
The sons of Zadok (a subsection of the Levitical priests) will be those that come into the Lord's presence to minister to Him. Having to change clothes to go from God's presence out to the puts it in the millennial reign, or before.
The priests teach the people the difference between Holy and profane, clean and unclean- this may have happened immediately after the Babylonian exile when Nehemiah and Ezra were active, and the rest of the chapter sounds as if it has been fulfilled during the temple restoration after the exile.
Sacrifices were also given to support the priests, that continues even today as clergy are supported by their congregations.

June 27, 2010 Wordlisteners Ezekiel 37-39

2010-06-27T17:06:00.000-07:00

We had 7 for Wordlisteners tonight, and the topic of discussion was Ezekiel 37-39. We also had more homemade ice cream. All was good. Chapter 37 is very rapture like in description, 38 and 39 describe the opening acts of the tribulation period. Come quickly Lord Jesus, all the things described in the book can happen at anytime. God is in control.

Our next meeting is scheduled for July 11th, 2010

Ezekiel 37

The Lord took him in spirit to a valley of dry bones. It is interesting that in the message edition Assyria and Babylon are said to have eaten Israel, and spit out bones. In Jeremiah 7:32-8:2 and in Jeremiah 50:17 the references to the destruction of Israel and then Judah are clear.
At the valley he is told to prophesy over the bones, and when he does the bones come together and flesh becomes attached. These bodies are not breathing until he is told to prophecy breath into them. Then they are fully alive. This is an example of the dead in Christ coming to life.
The next section explains what we just read. The bones are the "whole" house of Israel. Does this include the Christians? Christians do become part of the house of Israel. There is also the statement that God will make graves open (rapture like), and He will bring them into the land of Israel. The opening of the graves, and resurrection of the dead will show those resurrected and others that He is Lord.
At this point I'm reminded of the NT story of the resurrection of Lazarus. Jesus heard he was sick, and could have gone to heal him, but instead waited until he had died to act. In the story there was greater awe over a resurrection than there would have been over a healing. The raising of the dead will be an awe inspiring event that gets people's attention.
I think the breath in the bones that reformed bodies is the spirit of God. God will put His spirit in them and place them in their land (Israel- literal? Rapture?). The Lord does this and people know He is God. Since this is somewhat unbelievable in the natural we are reminded that what the Lord speaks He will do, it will happen.
I think this is more than Cyrus releasing the exiles from Babylon, and sending them home. God certainly brought that about as well, but there are things (if meant literally) that hasn't happened yet.
Verse 15 two sticks. Judah and Ephraim joined together one nation. One people after Babylonian exile, but not a nation until 1948. Was 1948 an act of God? an act of man trying to force God's hand? God made it happen, or He allowed it. God is sovereign. God will restore Israel and David will be their king, that description hasn't happened yet. The people will also follow His statutes and ordinances. Looking those up they run from Leviticus 18 to the end.
These are listed after sin and atonement offerings. Hebrews 9:23 states Jesus was the perfect sin offering allowing us back into right relationship with God. The following of His statutes by His restored people is mentioned plenty. These statutes involve sacrifices. Ezekiel describes a temple that hasn't been built yet (clearly, and may be the one of the 1000 year reign), but it has tables where animal sacrifices are prepared. Literal or figurative? Consider the following:
1. Our giving of money or tithing could be considered a sacrifice. It is an active sign of our acknowledgement of who God is. In that time (Ezekiel's) animals were capital (money). Since we still give tithes and offerings, after Jesus, it is plausible that some sacrifices will happen in the millennial reign. As described by Ezekiel in Chapter 40 and beyond.
2. In Leviticus the sin offering and atonement is first, then the following of the statutes and ordinances. Some of the sacrifices were clearly to support our fellow men, the priests, the poor, etc. In the 1000 year reign we will very gladly serve each other putting the needs of others first.
Back to Ezekiel, a few promises -Israel will live in the land given to Jacob with Jesus as Prince forever. God will place them there (after period in heaven?, or instantly in the process of restoring His people?) He will multiply them, and set His sanctuary in their midst (described later). God will dwell with them (in Israel) and nations will know God is Lord when His sanctuary is in their midst forever. Jerusalem a light to the world.
Now IF and I underline IF this happens just prior to the tribulation period, then imagine Jesus (or David) on the throne, His spirit poured out, the dead resurrected and brought forth to live there also.
Would city defenses be necessary?
Would the nation seem to be at peace and seemingly defenseless?

Ezekiel 38

Gog a nation from the North, Nations described include present day Russia, Iran, Ethiopia, and Turkey- all non arabic. Arabic nations will have an anti-christ peace treaty so Israel will feel secure. God will use them to demonstrate He is God.
Verse 8 is interesting- Israel is a land restored from the sword. Can be interpreted a couple ways. restored from the sword = war torn (1948), or restored from the sword = a land where wars don't happen anymore, the people truly follow God, worshiping and relying on Him.
The invaders coming- are they more likely to attack an armed Israel or one that is following the Lord at peace? Kind of hard to imagine, but the power of God is greater than we can imagine. Large numbers are indicated, interestingly it is our new military tactic- overwhelm the enemy. This can mean an attack expecting resistance. The statement that people are living securely- probably has never described current Israel.
The enemy will come like a cloud against a peaceable people living without bars or gates- trying to overwhelm God? Back in 36 the waste cities of Israel will be inhabited and fortified, yet will be without bars and gates? Their intent isn't stated to be annihilation but rather to plunder and spoil- from the affects of famine? Back in Chapter 36 the Lord states in vs 29 and 30 that when Israel is restored He will not allow the disgrace of famine. When the Lord turned His back to Jerusalem in Jeremiah famine soon followed. If restoring Israel and making the statement He is God then famine to the north could occur, while Israel has plenty, making them a clear plunder and spoil target.
It will be a day of plunder when Israel is living securely, and Gog knows it (vs 14)- peace treaty? This invasion has been prophesied for many years by the prophets of Israel (vs 17). Gog will be used to sanctify or set apart God. He will set Himself apart and call attention to Himself through their act of invasion and His response.
His response is said to be earthquakes in Israel (worldwide?- all the people of the earth will feel it). Mountains flattened. The invaders will turn on each other in panic, and fire and brimstone will rain down. This will magnify God, set Him apart, and make Him known in the sight of many nations. This will be the first part of the tribulation period, the first horse of the four in Revelation.

Ezekiel 39

Invasion of the blessed mountains of Israel. Invaders coming to plunder looking for food and cattle. They will fall on the mountains of Israel. The earthquake happens and they turn on each other. Fire falls on the parts their countries where people who didn't come as part of the invasion are. This is a demonstration that the Lord is God, not men with their supposed reasoning and military might. Israel will know He is the Lord- the point they turn to Christ?
The fallen invaders will become plunder for Israel. Interesting - God blesses His people Israel after restoring them, others become jealous and seek to plunder them but in fact end up giving up what they have (that God gave) to Israel. Its all God's - He'll redistribute it as He sees fit. James 4:2 is appropriate here. Instead of deciding to take from Israel they could have repented and asked God to bless them.
It will take 7 months to bury the dead and the plunder will last 7 years. So many dead the birds will eat. Interestingly it is called the Lord's sacrifice for the birds. Remember, He created these men, He desired something better for them, but their choices caused them to have to be sacrificed. So it is a cost of sorts to the Lord that they are slain (His creation destroyed). The sacrifice will be His table that He set for His birds, men don't have to do anything to bring it about.
All nations will see His action and His judgment. The house of Israel will know He is God from that day on.
The nations will realize that even though the history of the Jewish people involved hardship and exile, they are still His people.
God blesses the obedient, although truly obedient people aren't after worldly blessings.
God protects His chosen (not blesses), if they aren't obedient to Him then there is no blessing- He may look away. He allowed Israel to be punished. He punished those invaders on the mountains of Israel and will punish all who don't follow His ways. The only argument you can make about following or not following God is not that His ways are bad, none of them are. Its about wanting things our way even if others have to suffer for our choices.
Israel is restored then saved. They will forget their disgrace and live in the land. No one will cause them fear- knowing and truly receiving God and His love will cast out all fear (1 John 4:18).
When He gathers His people He will be sanctified or set apart in the sight of many nations (Jerusalem a light unto the world). Israel will know He is God (be saved), why they went into exile (disobedience). They are all gathered (including those that have died). He is present with them, and His spirit is poured out.
Show yourself Holy Lord.

Ezekiel 33:21-36 June 20, 2010

2010-06-22T19:40:00.000-07:00

There was 7 for Wordlisteners on June 20, 2010. We discussed Ezekiel 33:21 through Ezekiel 36. We also prepared some homemade ice cream. One of the continuing themes that had been discussed also in previous weeks was the similarity between a Judah about to be over-run by Babylon and our world today. A focus on selfishness, a wanting our way - like them. God only has to turn His back on us for calamity.

Come quickly Lord.

My notes are as follows:

Ezekiel was speechless until the day Jerusalem fell, then the Lord told him what the refugees were saying. They could not believe that the Lord let Jerusalem fell, after all He gave Abraham, one man, the land and what about all the people of Jerusalem? They felt deserving. The Lord reminded them through Ezekiel of their transgressions. They weren't obedient, so the Lord will give them to death, which they will not believe until it happens.
The Lord also tells Ezekiel how the people take him. They come and listen but do not heed his words. They are too worried about their own desires. They want their way and not God's. Ezekiel's words from God will come true, and they will know a prophet has been in their presence. All preachers and prophets must realize this, its not about any glory for them personally, but rather getting God's word out. Focusing on messenger rather than the message is not God's way.

Ezekiel 34

A prophecy against the shepherds of Israel-(the leaders of Israel and/or the organized church?). They are in it for themselves, they take care of themselves. The sick are not strengthened, diseased not healed, broken not bound, and scattered not gathered. Rather the shepherds have dominated. Since the shepherds weren't doing what God had appointed them to do the flock was scattered, and became food. The shepherds were concerned with their own gain and not that of others. God will deliver His flock.
God will search out His flock from all the places scattered and bring them to their own land- He will do it. God will gather them and bring them to the mountains of Israel. God will feed them, and it will be good pasture on the mountain heights. He will feed His flock and lead them to rest. God will seek the lost, bring back the scattered bind up the broken- He will take care of them.
The fat and strong He will destroy, they push and want better. There seems to be even amongst God's flock those sheep that place their desires and wants above the needs of others or the common good. Whatever God provides good pasture, they look for greener grass and clearer water. Becoming self focused, and not putting others first. One shepherd will be set over them (King David- it seems), He will make a covenant of peace, and they will live securely. The earth will yield its increase, and they will know the Lord, no one will make them afraid, no famine, no insults from others. God will make them secure, and they will be submitted to His ways and they will feel the security that we all desire by knowing God.
In this chapter we saw what God will do for and to His flock- those that recognize Him and His position and plans. He will search them out and gather them, because their leaders don't take care of them. Within the flock He will deal with selfishness. He will lead them.

Ezekiel 35

In contrast to the last chapter we see what God will do to those who may recognize Him but try to usurp His position, and are opposed to His plans.
The Lord is against Mount Seir (Edom- those who oppose Israel). It will become a desolation, they delivered Israel to the sword at the time of calamity. Since they liked bloodshed, bloodshed will follow them. God gives us the desire of our heart, both good and bad. If we want Him we get closer to Him, if we reject Him He will let us live in a world without Him. Its our choice. Mount Seir will become an everlasting desolation.
The people opposed to God's plans selfishly push their own. They see Him and know about Him but don't act to align themselves with His will. Rather they promote their own agenda. The fallen angels know about God and His plan, but through their pride and arrogance deny God and His plan in favor of their own.
Edom thought the land of Israel was there for them, that they would possess it regardless of what God had said. They thought the land and the people were there for the plunder for them. Focused on things of the world rather than people – not God's way. So they hated when God blessed them with good things and cheered at their misfortunes (when God removed blessing). They even spoke arrogantly against God and His plans. They rejoiced when God made Judah a desolate place, so God will make them a desolation.
He will show that He is God.

Ezekiel 36

A prophecy to the mountains of Israel- God's spoken word concerning them. God had made them a desolation in punishing Israel and Judah for disobedience to Him. Other nations had witnessed this and decided to appropriate the land for themselves. God has previously spoken to make those nations a desolation that decide they can have their own way on earth. So when other nations wanted the mountains of Israel and God said “no” and wouldn't let them have it, then they insulted the land. The insults they used are exactly what they will have to endure. Be careful what you say if it doesn't align with God's way.
He then speaks what will happen to the mountains- it will put forth branches and bear fruit, for His people will soon come. It will be cultivated and sown. Men will be multiplied on it (God says), all the cities inhabited and waste places rebuilt. Once inhabited the Lord will bless the inhabitants, its an inheritance to the people of Israel.
The mountains have a bad reputation of bereaving those that live there of children. God rebukes this saying- it won't happen again. Furthermore the mountains will have no disgrace.
An explanation- the sons of Israel living in the land defiled it. God poured out His wrath on them and rather than accept their own part in it they blamed the land (mountains). God scattered them for their deeds and yet as humans we like to look for reasons that don't involve our wickedness. So in exile these people had come from God's land, and the other nations knew it. So the land got the bad reputation and not the deeds of the people in the land.
The title in this section is that the mountains of Israel will be blessed. The first thing it says is that God doesn't act for our sake, but for the sake of His Holy (sacred) name which Israel has profaned (desecrated)- they felt they weren't to blame. No matter how badly we treat each other, and its getting pretty bad, its about God and His name. The more we profane God and His name the more likely we will treat each other badly. For it is God and His Spirit in place that makes life have any goodness it does. The Lord will vindicate His Holy name, by showing Himself Holy in the sight of all.
How? He will start by taking Israel (Jews and Christians?) from the nations, gathering them from all lands and bringing them into their own land (promised to them). A glimpse of this is happening, but its not complete.
He will then cleanse them (us) with water, and put a new spirit and heart in them, which will cause us to walk in His statutes and ordinances. This is sort of what happens when we accept Christ. It goes further to say we'll live in the land and be His people.
He will then bless the crops- no famine, other nations may however experience it.
We will remember our past deeds and loathe ourselves. We will be ashamed of our ways. Having a knowledge of them and being grateful for His better ways. He will not do this for us, but rather to show Himself. On a "day" that He cleanses us from our iniquity - on that day he will cause the cities to be inhabited and waste places rebuilt (sounds like a sudden influx of people).
Formerly desolate land will be cultivated, and all will see it. The land will become like a garden of Eden, and waste, desolate and ruined cities will be inhabited and fortified. Now when the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem the towns were made desolate, so that has happened, but it could happen again.
This will be a sign for the nations around that He is the Lord. A witness for the world- sounds like what some call a "prosperity gospel" in that the Lord will bless His people with crops and abundance while others (that don't follow Him- by their own choice) may experience famine. He spoke it, it will happen.
Israel will then increase like a flock, the waste cities will be filled with flocks of men.
God doesn't act for our sake but only for His name- we humans certainly aren't worthy or deserving of any kindness. God freely gives it out of Himself to show that He is the ONLY reason to do anything.
When He says He will bless the crops and there be no famine, but other nations may experience it- this sounds pre-millennial reign.
We will live in the land and be His people as a witness to nations.

Wordlisteners June 13,2010 Ezekiel 30-33:20

2010-06-13T17:06:00.000-07:00

We had seven for wordlisteners. Generally the discussion was about how much like present times was all the prophesy of God toward Pharaoh and Assyria and ultimately Israel. If we take our sights off of God then we are in trouble. God merely ignoring us will make our lives miserable.

Our next meeting is next week -June 20

Here are my notes:
Ezekiel 30

Egypt is to be destroyed, the Lord is prophesying it ahead of time, because it is unbelievable. When it happens they'll know He is God. End times are like that looking at it in the natural, it seems so far fetched. A fetching away, Jesus coming to earth to establish His kingdom, they can be hard to believe in light of what we have experienced, but it will happen and when it does we'll know that God said it. Then He brought it to pass.
Ethiopia will be included and it will happen at the hands of Nebuchadnezzar. Then drought and desolation. He is not doing it from meanness, but rather He is pouring out His wrath because of their actions (our). Men slain and women taken into captivity.
The arm of the Egyptian king will be broken, which means the Egyptians will be powerless to prevent the onslaught of the Babylonians. The Lord is using the Babylonians to execute His judgments, and the Egyptians will be scattered. The scattering will be so unbelievable that they will know the Lord is God. Their pride as being the premier kingdom, and it was at one time will be reduced to those scattered and living in captivity- completely ignored by God (Oswald Chambers). God will show who He is.

Ezekiel 31

Pharaoh is warned of Assyria's fate. A nation built by God, magnificent and unmatched by the cedars in God's garden. The trees of Eden were jealous. But the heart of Assyria became haughty (prideful) so the Lord gave it to another nation to be destroyed. Pride and haughtiness is something we all deal with. We often will say something about our doing this or that and not acknowledge God's blessing on our lives. Or we get so sure of our plans that we neglect that God is the one in control, and our plans only happen if He allows them. Elevating ourselves and forgetting God is wickedness and He will deal with it.
Is this another facet of the teaching of Job? Bad things happening to us doesn't mean we are bad, they may be tests. Forgetting God or elevating ourselves above Him means we will be ignored by God. He will remove His favor, and that is all He has to do, its terribly fearful to think of those that deny God and press against His goads, but then expect the attributes of following God to still apply.
Assyria will be humbled for their pride, and so will Egypt. Nothing of any greatness (that God has given) will last unless God says so.
In leaving a former position I left things I felt would help the new person. The person I replaced at the new job did the same. In both cases more was left than would be used, so in these examples it is clear that our legacy or pride creeps in. Its very easy to become prideful.

Ezekiel 32

Now Pharaoh and Egypt will be judged for their pride, or maybe just the blessings removed. Great death and destruction is in store. Darkness in the land. Other kings will be fearful, if great Egypt can fall- what about them? This is not unlike us looking up to another – a Christian we deeply respect. Then we find out they aren't perfect, and none are, and we get crushed. In looking at them we take our eyes off of God. In looking at Egypt the nations became fearful of their security. God brings about the true security, and the people of Judah forgot that, they looked to Egypt.
Egypt is going to Sheol to join Assyria and Elam. Dead among the uncircumcised-those not chosen of God. Meshech Tubal and Edom, and the Sidonians. Not a place of honor, but a place where the mighty end up, those that won't bow their will to God. Those who want things their way. Slain by the sword of those that God wields.

Ezekiel 33

A watchman is appointed to warn the people. He is responsible for warning the people, the choice they make when they hear the warning is their own. God will make sure that His intentions are known such that people will have to make a choice about His way (life) or their way (death).
As for the people appointed to inform of God's message, they also have a choice. These are the prophets, they speak the message from God. These messengers can be false prophets or true prophets. A true prophet (according to Oswald Chambers) stood for the condemnation of people, whereas a false prophet speaks of their exoneration. It comes down to the condition of the human heart if an appointed person thinks there is any good there he is false. The true prophet knows the true condition of man's heart. Jonah comes to mind, he prophesied the destruction of Ninevah, which didn't happen because of true repentance and God's mercy. Yet he wasn't a false prophet because he spoke to the true condition of men's heart – deserving destruction.
As messengers we are appointed to speak of the true condition of the hearts of men. Any good we think we see should be a praise to God that He is working in that person or nation. It does not change their heart condition, it is rather a point of surrender they have personally chosen to make to God and His light is shining through. To say there is good in a man's heart is also saying there are areas that he/she doesn't have to choose to submit to God's will rather than self. Clearly false. Our desires need to align with the desires of God, when they do our prayers are assured answers.
Ezekiel was appointed a watchman, and he was submitted to God to the point that he faithfully did what God asked. What he was asked to do was warn people of their wickedness. Only in admitting their wickedness can there be true repentance. He was given a message for the people, and he gave it to them. To have a message from God and not proclaim it is disobedience, and a sign of not being submitted to God, therefore the punishment due the wicked is deserved.
The message has to get out there, and God will find those that will put it out there. It still comes down to personal choice – a following of God's ways or self. Once the message is out there a turning to God from self is possible (repentance). When someone does repent which is a change in life direction, God is ready to offer mercy and life. He takes no pleasure in the death of any. He initiates it with us all and we have to choose to respond.
Its not a once and done proposition though, God will continue to initiate to us by showing us other areas where we haven't submitted or haven't shown the actions of submission to God. He wants us completely submitted. Submitting to Him in some areas (showing righteousness) but then not others is really saying to Him that we aren't fully submitted. Therefore we are deserving of death. On the other hand, at any point turning from wickedness to His way puts us on the path of life. The turning from wickedness is not just a mind thing or verbal it requires actions or sacrifice of self – making amends or restitution.
As selfish people this continual growth seems not fair, we want to settle it once and for all. If we have fully submitted to God it is settled once and for all. If we want to gain life and yet hold onto self, then it is a sign that we haven't settled it. God is ready even when we're not. He wants it settled once and for all the choice is ours, do we? His sacrifice was once and accounts for all, our commitment needs to be similar.

Wordlisteners May 30, 2010 Ezekiel 25-29

2010-05-31T05:57:00.000-07:00

There were four for Wordlisteners, and our discussions involved the fact that we are prideful individuals and selfish, just like these nations that have God's judgments pronounced against them in these chapters. Furthermore we are me focused, instead of God focused, and we need to work to get self "out of the way" Its interesting the subtle differences between the prophecies, and how much our society is like the one of Tyre.

God's heart and lessons for us- don't revel in other's misfortunes. Don't deny that God's setting apart a people to himself has no meaning regardless of what you see, and certainly don't make an joyful effort to prosper because of someone's misfortune.

Here are my notes from Ezekiel 25-29.

Ezekiel 25

A prophesy toward Ammon - a warning from God, to a people He didn't choose, but made, allowing them to turn in right relationship to Him. They were glad God profaned His sanctuary allowing it to be destroyed, so God will give them to their enemies. He is warning them ahead of time, so when it happens (which they probably didn't think it would) they would know He is God. God will destroy them.
This was a warning to a specific people at a specific time, but God has let it endure. For the history lesson, or is there something in there for us today. Ammon was glad that God allowed His temple to be profaned and His nation made desolate. There are people today that are glad when bad things happen to God's people. Both Israel and the Church, and this warning endures for them as well. God is God and His desires will happen, nobody should be happy at the misfortune of others.
Now we deal with Moab. which said the house of Judah is like all nations. Now Judah wanted to be like other nations, they wanted a king, they ultimately worshiped idols, and became very much like other nations. However they were still set apart by God for His purposes, so in saying they were other nations Moab was denying that God had set them apart. Again for that day, but how does it apply to us. Ever heard or said that Christians are like everyone else? In a sense we are but God has placed a call on our lives that we responded to, so we are not truly like everyone else. We face the same issues, we have the same temptations, we certainly struggle, but God has marked us. Its important to remember that God's offer is for all, He wants to mark everyone because it is His creation and he is big enough to do so.
Now Edom which saw a weakened Israel and acted against them taking vengeance. A warning to a specific people at a specific time, but saved for us. How does it apply? God was going to use His people to execute His vengeance. In the same way when people take advantage of Israel or Christians due to weakness, they are opening themselves up and will realize that one day God will have the final say through Israel and the Christians.
Philistia acted in revenge on a weakened Israel with scorn of soul and to destroy with enmity (hostility). This applied then but also now to people actively hostile to Israel and Christians. God Himself will protect them and He Himself will execute His vengeance.
All of these rebukes is God saying that He alone has the final say, and it will be His way.

Ezekiel 26

Now for the fault of a city. Tyre was looking to take advantage of Israel's misfortune. They evidently felt they would benefit from Israel's decline. They controlled sea trade, and Jerusalem controlled the caravan routes, with Jerusalem out of the way they felt their profit would increase. They were an alternative. People who are out to destroy the things of God (Jerusalem is His footstool) offer alternatives, and consider that their belief, way or whatever will strengthen as the Christian or Israel weakens. However man cannot take into account every facet of what he thinks he knows, and eventually great anger will be stirred. God will bring up many nations against Tyre, just as He will allow those with alternatives to His plans face the adversity that they will cause.
When you deny the Higher Power of God you unleash selfishness which leads to evil. Historically Tyre was destroyed and never rebuilt. It was really two cities, one part on the mainland and one part on an island. Nebuchadnezzar had the land part under siege 15 years, it was getting resupplied form the sea, and from trade. Once it did fall he destroyed it. However he couldn't destroy the Island part. When Alexander the Great conquered it, he took the rubble from the land part of the city and built a bridge to the island part, destroying it completely. So it did take many waves of people, and it was never rebuilt.
Again rejoicing over another's misfortune, or considering gain from the misfortune of others is not what God wants for us His people. He left this chapter as a warning for us. I don't know how many days or months it took Alexander to build the bridge, but the inhabitants knew their days were numbered, fear and trembling I'm sure happened, but no mention of repentance.

Ezekiel 27

A lament for Tyre. A description of a far reaching influential society that was wealthy from trade. For their time they had a global economy with a focus on goods and wealth- a lot like today. Yet God is not given credit, or even mentioned, its all about them. A great economic juggernaut will be destroyed and people will cry, God said so, it doesn't fit His plans.

Ezekiel 28

The king of Tyre thought he was god, due to his power and influence. Through wisdom and understanding this empire was built, and the accumulation of goods and things brought about an elevation in their mind and heart that they were god. Through his own wit and wisdom he forgot his place, and when facing death, will he repent and acknowledge God?
God had placed Tyre there and their leaders. He gave them their wisdom that led to their riches. God blessed them until it went to their head that they didn't need God. The abundance of trade, busyness of accomplishment, caused them to come to believe wrongly and exalt their own success. Since they didn't acknowledge God they were cast down by Him. To cease to be forever. Some of the descriptions of the king of Tyre apply to Satan, he was in Eden, an anointed cherub with access to God. Satan beauty led to pride in the same way the Tyre's success led to pride and denial of God.
Sidon, God will be glorified in Sidon's midst. In Ezek 27:8 the rowers for Tyre lived in Sidon. So the two were intertwined, the rowers did all the work and Sidon's fate was tied to Tyre's. The residents of Sidon as rowers definitely contributed to the success that led to Tyre's down fall.
All the nations surrounding Israel have been mentioned with the great world power Tyre being last. The Lord will gather His people and will manifest His holiness in His people in the sight of the nations and they will live in the land they were given. They will live securely while the Lord executes judgments on those that scorn His people. A final chance to realize and confess that Jesus is Lord.

Ezekiel 29

A prophesy against the nation of Egypt. A prideful people who claimed to have made the Nile. Completely ridiculous but pride can lead to absurdity. God will judge Egypt. Judah when faced with an invading Babylon, after the king of Judah had sworn allegiance to Babylon, made a treaty or sought protection against Babylon instead of God. So here is judgment against anything we might turn to instead of God for protection. Egypt was powerless to protect Judah against Babylon, so they are referred to a staff made of reed with no strength. In reality Egypt was overthrown, so they couldn't even protect themselves.
Desolate for forty years and then restored to a status of a lesser nation, not one that any country would have enough confidence in their military might to seek protection again.
Nebuchadnezzar had the mainland part of Tyre under siege 15 years. They held out so long because the island part could provide goods and supplies, but they also evidently evacuated anything that would be regarded as plunder. So Babylon partially destroyed Tyre, but received no plunder (or minimal). So God sends them to Egypt to overthrow it and fulfill this prophecy of Ezekiel. It also gave the army plunder or wages.

Wordlisteners May 23, 2010 Ezekiel 23 and 24

2010-05-23T17:18:00.000-07:00

There was three for Wordlisteners, but the discussion went very well.

Ezekiel 23

Now for a story comparing the actions of Judah (Jerusalem) and Israel (Samaria) as if they were sisters and humans rather than nations. God is truly and remarkably at many levels, He treats us all individually but also collectively as nations we possess somewhat human characteristics. Israel and Judah let Egypt do what they wanted by giving themselves to Egypt.

Samaria (Israel) – Assyrians became their focus not God. Assyrians invaded and became the focus rather than God. She the nation took up their idols. They seemingly attributed the Assyrian power to their idols rather than that God allowed it.

What idols do we attribute success to? College education, fitness, certain car, certain job, certain vacation. People become very passionate about their idols and often lose focus as to what is important. Idols also feed our self centeredness we think we (note the reference to self) will have a better life if we (again) have that thing. We should be pursuing education, careers in an effort not to be a burden on others, rather than what we get out of it. The only happiness in life is in a relationship with God and serving Him. Otherwise at some point there will be regret, a feeling an opportunity was missed.

God gave Samaria what they wanted, more of the Assyrians, which they focused on rather than the true God and it destroyed their country. Caused children to be murdered. Is it fair that God lets children die? Seemingly because of the actions of others. This is a hard thing to understand, but God is about justice and righteousness, and HE ALONE can make things like the death of a child fair. We cannot, and we feel powerless often getting angry, but it shows us our position- which is that we are not God. The Samarians seemingly wanted less of God so He gave them what they wanted, and look where it led. Another example in the Bible that God knows what is best for us and we really don't.

Judah watched the actions of Samaria, and didn't learn from them. We ask how this is possible, and yet how many different ways have we tried the same thing, getting an undesirable result, and yet insist this time it will be different. We are “special” we think- it will work for us but not for them- pride I'm afraid is elevating us falsely. How many of us made the same decisions (which turned out badly) that an older sibling did? How many of our kids walk down the same path that we tried all those years ago with results we aren't content with? In all this God is our father, watching yet another child make the same mistakes an older sibling did, wondering why they didn't learn, wondering how they can be so blind to reality.

Judah surpassed Samaria in turning away from God, she turned away from God with the Assyrians and the Babylonians and still wasn't satisfied. Apart from a relationship with God there is no satisfaction. Having a relationship with God (committing to it) and then turning away for relationship with someone/something else is adultery.

God wants relationship but its not demanded, there would be no relationship if He made us, He only then makes the offer. Judah rejected Him so He turned away. When God turns away from you in your life watch out. The good things are from God, if He turns, the good things go with Him.

Judah seemingly got what she wanted (God out of the picture), and it went to her head, she now thought she was God and exercised what she thought was now her privilege to do anything. When we do what we want apart from God, people will get hurt, and there doesn't seem to be an exception in the Bible. Those that Judah hurt possibly by trying to break off the relationship, came back to hurt Judah. Isn't that our natural response when we are hurt, it is to strike back (its not of God, but of the flesh). Since the countries Judah turned from God for were not Godly themselves they acted in the flesh- hurting Judah if Judah hurt them. If we live in a “Me” or “I” frame of mind very long we will get hurt by the actions of others.

God had almost reached the point of abandoning Judah, because of her wanting her way. She did what Samaria had tried and gotten the same result. Now she had to drink the consequences. Consequences from turning from God, and denying Him, and focusing on self. Ezekiel was to point out the actions of Judah and Samaria. Show them their obscenities. A turning from God, a not putting God first – considering Him Holy. They sought answers from men and not God.

When we seek answers from men we often polish our side of the information. Ever heard of a couple in a dispute, and only hearing one side? You just can't believe the other person can be “that way”. Consider you are seeing the polish, we all have our faults and shortcomings, we all have weaknesses we sometimes act upon. Going to God? We can't hide anything from Him, we can't polish the information and spin it in our favor, He knows us. He might show us our contribution to the issue and its scary to consider “innocent us” might have some responsibility. We might have to change and admit we're not better than the other person(s) involved. Are we better than others? Does God think so? If we have responsibility in the issue shouldn't we want to change and do our part to fix it? Does God think so?

Ezekiel 24

The parable of the boiling pot. Babylon has laid siege to Jerusalem, all the people (who might think they are special, different or better) are all in the pot together. A pot that will be boiled (adversity). Piece by piece removed without choice. Choices were made, God's plan and ways were not followed and therefore bad things happened, and God had become wearied by the people (His people). He wants the filthiness to be melted away, trials drive people to God.

We want our own way until there is trouble, and then we run to God. God wants us to avoid the unpleasantness, and yet we reject His offer. He would cleanse us if we will let Him. Now after wearying Him His wrath must be endured - if that is possible unless He relents. He will judge and will do so fairly- none of us want that.

Ezekiel's wife died as an example of something we often set our sights on rather than God. A prime one being a relationship in the world. The temple had become a similar focus of the people, rather than a focus on God. They felt God would protect His temple and thus them, and felt secure, but it was a false sense of security. God wants our focus to be on Him. Not the things of Him, not the things He has given us, but Him alone. Over time He brings us to this point of a focus on Him alone, when we are there we will know He is God.

Ezekiel 20-22 Notes

2010-05-23T10:23:00.000-07:00

We did meet on April 25, and discussed chapters 20-22. The notes are below. In May there was Praise and Worship -1st Sunday, my son's graduation -second Sunday and I went camping -Third Sunday. May 23 will be our first meeting.

The notes for ch 20-22:

Ezekiel 20

Leaders come to Ezekiel to inquire of God seeking His Guidance. God will not be questioned by them. Then begins a history lesson as to the why not. When He rescued Israel from Egypt they rebelled against Him. He was going to destroy them, but acted out of who He was and not how He felt. We face similar choices, we can act in the right way because it is the right way or we can act on our feelings of hurt or desire.

He gave Israel His laws, but they continued to rebel against Him. This is now the children of those that came out of Egypt. If they obey His laws they will live in the land, if they do not they will be scattered. They chose not to obey and eventually were scattered. They desecrated the sabbath. Again He acted out of who He is and not how He felt. His laws and statues that he gave them could not produce goodness and life (v25), they were meant to alert them to their hopeless condition without God. He abandoned them to let them do their own thing. Goodness and life only come through obedience, choosing to follow God's nature rather than our feelings.

He brought them into the land and on every hill they made an idol to another god, not caring for following the true God. The message Ezekiel has from God for the leaders coming for guidance is that they are continuing in the ways of their parents. They repeat the vile practices and sacrifice their own children. Acting as such God will not be questioned by them. To seek God -repentance - turning to His ways is what He wants. Otherwise we are trying to manipulate God, and He won't have it.

Israel like the other nations wanted to have gods that they control. They wanted gods they could manipulate, but God is saying He will be King over them. He will show that He is God. He will bring them back from being scattered with a mighty show of strength, and he will judge them, culling out the rebels and traitors, they won't be brought back to Israel, then they'll realize that He is the true God.

Continue He says going your own way, but one day the entire people of Israel will worship Him on His mountain, and He'll receive them with open arms. In bringing them to Himself before the whole world he will demonstrate that He is God. He acts out of who He is and not how He feels. They will loathe their actions of old- remembering them, prior to coming and worshiping God.

For now Ezekiel is told to prophesy of a fire that God starts that cannot be put out. This places Ezekiel at the time of the great scattering in the dialogue given.

Ezekiel 21

The sword is about to be unleashed on Israel on both the wicked and the righteous. He, God, is warning them. He means business, it will be His way and not ours. They worshiped things other than the true God, so He is abandoning them to the sword.

They have avoided discipline, and now God is putting them into a position where they can't avoid it.

The sword will come until God tells it to relent.

Starting at verse 18 we see how this is going to unfold. The king of Babylon will come and "decide" whether to go to Damascus or Jerusalem. God is really in control of this outcome, The Babylonians decide to go to Jerusalem. This will mean siege of the city. The sins of the leaders will be exposed, and they will be taken captive. Zedekiah swore allegiance to Babylon, and then changed his mind. His time is up, the entire city will become ruins.

The city will be in ruins until the one comes who has a right to it. For now Ezekiel is to prophesy the destruction.

Ezekiel 22

God asks Ezekiel if he is going to judge the city. Stand there and tell them all about their outrageous obscenities. In this context judge seems to indicate “point out”. A murderous city filled with idols. Murder and idols, piling up guilt, forcing a premature end to their existence. Murder makes guilty, idolatry makes filthy. They will be an exhibit for the nations. God will use His city and His nation for that.

6- The leaders compete to do crimes, they are rude to parents- not respect, abusive-prejudiced, and oppressive to orphans and widows- pick on the most helpless. They treat Holy things with contempt -not giving Him His proper place. Although acknowledge God (although they really don't have the proper perspective of Who God is) they also worship other gods. Spread lies and spill blood – gossip and malice. Sex -personal pleasure focused, not caring about partners, too focused on “I” or “me”. Sex with anyone, not as God intended- for bonding and children.

Murder for hire- playing God and trying to impose your will. Exhortation, trying to control, trying to run things our way. God was forgotten – or an attempt was made to forget, instead of prominently in His rightful place, not part of the focus of life.

God will deal with them, when He does, will they be able to continue? He is going to put a stop to their denial of Him and scatter the nation. Once they are no longer in control they will see God. We must make God the center of our lives and keep Him there. When self takes over nudging God to the side then all the previously described sin happens. He then takes away our seeming “control” and we readily shift Him back to His rightful place.

People of Israel are like slag, because of their behavior. Self focused instead of God focused, so they become useless to God. He will melt them down and give them trials through His wrath. Our non-God centered life will become unimportant. He will get through to us.

Drought- we take rain for granted, along with what it brings. Drought comes and we compete, taking from the weaker to satisfy our wants. Definitely not loving our brother.

Priests – mixed the sacred and secular. God is to be the focus of our lives not just a part. For He cannot be equal with other parts because He is God. Whether we acknowledge Him or not He is already in the other parts. Priests tell people there is no difference between right and wrong, we hear today as truth is “personal” there are no “absolutes”, and yet God is absolute and Holy. We are either for Him or against Him.

Priests pull God to their level, they might say that God grieves over earthquake victims in Haiti just like we do. Correction – God grieves over our sin and our mistakes. He knew Haiti would happen, He wants to get our attention. God is about justice and fairness and he makes things right for all individuals – most assuredly in ways we don't always or cannot see.

Politicians kill and take what they want – they don't feel responsible nor accountable for their actions. Priests back them up by saying they have “special” visions and “revelations”. They say this is what God the master says … They have made themselves out to be more spiritual than others.

God is not a respecter of persons (Acts 10:34, Rom 2:11 and 1Peter1:17)

So God may share a vision with one person, but it is available to all. He will give it to you as well. Otherwise God would be a respecter of persons. He certainly gives you what you need, and when you are ready for it, and when it will do Him the most good. Otherwise the babies may choke on the solid food.

There was no access to justice. God looked for someone (singular) to stand up for Him, stand in the gap so He wouldn't have to destroy the city. So He'll empty His wrath when nobody is willing to speak truly for Him. The city will be destroyed, and no innocent people are affected.

Ezekiel 18 and 19 notes

2010-05-23T10:22:00.000-07:00

Here they are as promised.

Ezekiel 18

Here we have a wonderful passage of teaching in this chapter. Each person will account for his/her own sins. the people of Israel were going around saying the children are punished for the sins of their parents. Lots of wonderful messages here.
First of all the sin of parents can affect the children of those parents. There is what some people call a "generational curse" where the behavior of parents do negatively impact the lives of the children. Parents are often blamed for bad behavior by children. The fact that people were saying this maybe meant that they weren't concerned with their sin because there apparently would be no consequences on them but only their children. Now parents who willingly sin and delay the consequences until the generation of their children are being entirely too selfish.
Every soul is God's and he states that. Furthermore every soul will account for their own actions. This is illustrated by the example of a righteous generation followed by a wicked generation followed by a righteous generation. The action of the individuals are what determines their life (eternal) or not.
One thing can be inferred even though it isn't said. It is this, that a generational curse does not have any power over an individual. It is a matter of personal choice. Bad actions and choices by your parents do not necessarily mean their children will make bad choices.
The symmetry here is wonderful as well. Good actions and choices by parents do not necessarily mean a child will make good choices. It will always be an individual's choice.
Pause- reflect on what this means, wonderful circumstances do not prevent bad choices, and terrible circumstances do not make certain bad choices. I think of my shortcomings as a parent, and all parents I would hazard to say make errors. I see in my mind hungry and abused children that God loves, those in terrible family situations and yet they have hope, the best type of hope.
Conversely children in near perfect homes still have choices to make. Life determining choices.
Another interesting point, it is that our bad choices (sins) are forgotten when we turn toward righteousness and repent. In I Cor 13 we read that love doesn't keep a record of wrongs. Are we keeping records of the wrongs done to us? Neither here nor in I Cor is an exception noted. More symmetry, righteous acts are not deposited and kept in an account so we can transgress. If a person chooses to turn away from God, they will die Eze 18:24.
What it means is that people have to constantly choose to follow God. They have to continue down the righteous path they started daily. There is no plateau, there should be constant growth. Building up sin credit isn't possible. On the other hand a person who has made selfish, prideful decisions can choose a different way and his/her past is erased from God's memory (even if not from man's).
What remarkable love.
The Israelites claimed that this wasn't "fair" - was it because they were trying to build up a credit to allow transgression? Transgression being a willful act that hurts the welfare of another person. Or were they leaning on pride and the fact that they had been righteous "longer" than a person who just turned to God. Longer somehow making them better.
This means there is hope for wicked people to turn and find life, and at the same time the righteous person has an opportunity to fall. The day you accepted Christ was a turning to God, a choosing His way over your own. I hope that choosing His way is a daily activity by us all. Choose to live His way daily, hourly, by the minute, by the second, it is his desire that none should perish, and His ways are the best (by far) choices.
What remarkable love.

Ezekiel 19

This requires a history lesson from 2 Chron 36. Judah is the lioness, her cubs are kings at the end before exile. Her first cub taken to Egypt with hooks. This would be Josiah's son Jehoahaz- taken to Egypt by its king. He then appointed Jehoiakim, Jehoahaz' brother as king. Nebuchadnezzar came and laid seige to Judah and took this king to Babylon.
This shows that Judah was weak, that it was overrun by two different nations. A vine if you will, easy to break. But torn from its land, its roots, and now only fit for the fire.
After Jehoiakim was taken to Babylon, Jehoiachin his son made king, but he was later ordered to be brought to Babylon. Zedekiah (Jehoiachin's uncle- Son of Josiah??) made king, and was the king when the city was taken and destroyed.

Ezekiel 18 and 19, April 18, 2010

2010-04-18T18:24:00.001-07:00

Its been a while since we met but we had four for wordlisteners tonight. After some discussion of current events at the church we read and discussed Ezekiel 18 and 19.

Our next meeting is scheduled for April 25th at 6:30. My notes will be attached later. Ezekiel 18 shows God's love for us as individuals, its amazing.

Feb 14, 2010 Ezekiel 14-17

2010-02-14T17:09:00.000-08:00

Tonight we had four for Wordlisteners, we read and discussed Ezekiel 14 -17. I didn't read my notes because I think maybe my notes are too boring and the Bible should be read as how does this apply to my life.

After reviewing my notes I found that they were quite well done and that we had discussed most of the points I had made in them. Its Awesome the way God knits us all together.

Our next meeting will be after Easter. Our church is doing HOF (Hearts on Fire) the next six Sunday nights.

Here are my notes:
Ezekiel 14

Idols in their hearts, leaders came to Ezekiel with something other than God first and foremost in their hearts. Anything that is put before God in our hearts will destroy us - it plainly says that here. These people have idols in their lives and still come to seek the advice of God from one of His known prophets. God's message, He will work on their hearts. They can repent and turn away from their idols, or they can not repent which means they are turning their backs on God- their choice. Choices have consequences - turning your back on God means He will use you as an example for others of what happens when someone turns their back on God. A prophet furthermore can be deceived and seemingly tell these seekers its OK to turn your back on God. When things go awry they then blame God- another data point for having a personal relationship with God, and not relying on another person. The only person we can trust to intercede for us is Christ. The prophet is in trouble, and God will remove him. Furthermore those that use the excuse that "the prophet said" will still be held accountable for their actions. God's desire is for people to put Him first, to not rebel against Him which makes them filthy.

Now we get a glimpse of how God is going to deal with a faithless country, in this case Jerusalem. Since Jerusalem (Judah) isn't mentioned until later then perhaps this might be a general strategy of His. He will start by destroying the food supply. A reference is made to Noah, Daniel, and Job, clearly they followed the Lord and put Him first they would be spared from the famine. Those that follow God will be. If their kids are there then the righteousness of the parent does not save the children (in depth in Chapter 18), we all must make our own decisions as to who to follow (God is preferred). Is following God out of fear of catastrophe in this life a good enough reason to do it, or are you really being selfish and looking out for your own interests? Actions may appear well, but has your heart changed?

Another method is to make wild animals go through the country, driving out the inhabitants. Again He will rescue or protect those that follow Him.

He may allow war to come to that country, again protecting those that are faithful to Him. Lastly He might allow disease to come to the faithless country, always as is His way, protecting those faithful to Him.

These four catastrophes are in store for Jerusalem, and even with all that some will survive, and decide to change. To repent from following idols (placing something before God in their hearts) and turn to follow Him. The destructive nature of lives lived with idols instead of God at the center of your life is far worse than the catastrophes God uses. Its worse than suffering from famine, disease, war, and wild animals. God is serious about this matter, and its absolutely in our best interest as well.

Ezekiel 15

The people in Jerusalem are compared to the wood of a vine. Vine really have no strength and is a soft wood good for burning. The charring reference came from the history that the Assyrian army was within four miles of Jerusalem before God destroyed it. Now God will let the Babylonians destroy the city. Why? The people, His chosen people have been faithless. Jerusalem will become a wilderness for a time.

Ezekiel 16

This is one of those chapters where God outlines His great love for us. It is preserved for us as an example that God loves us. The first part is an example of a helpless baby abandoned by the parents. The umbilical cord wasn't cut, the baby was just discarded in a vacant lot. All of us know that there was a time when we were helpless, and possibly even remember such situations. The abandonment by parents, and yet cared for by God shows His heart not just for nations and peoples but also for us as individuals.

God then chose the people of Israel and cared for them. Bathed them, provided for them, and they grew up. Like a child they got to a point where they could do certain things for themselves. Parents always have mixed feelings at this. We rejoice at the independence but have some sorrow that it will mean the child is less dependent. God came by again and made up Israel into a beautiful bride like nation, stunning to look at, and entered into a marriage like covenant with them. They became His, and He blessed them to become world renown.

Just like a child growing up Israel forgot about what God had done, children often don't realize or remember the sacrifices their parents made for them. Israel and us as individuals took the blessings of God and it went to our heads. We forgot our helplessness, we forgot that what we had had been given to us. This is all very easy to do. They reached and we reach a point of expectation. This will continue forever, and furthermore we fool ourselves into thinking we are in control.

What happened to Israel? They at this point abandoned God and started doing their own thing, and this can happen to us as individuals as well. They then took the blessings God had given them and used them in a manner that grieved God. What He desired that they do they ignored, and yes this can apply to individuals. They sacrificed their children, the ones God had given them, this I believe is a clear indicator of a nation or a person that has sunk to a very low level. Willing to kill their own children to preserve what they think is their desire for the way life should be. The helplessness of the Israel initially was forgotten, and that we are all helpless before God we often forget. Instead they did and we do things that displease God.

Then escalation happened, it was no longer just within their borders or personal lives, but they spread their ways to other nations and peoples. They involved them in their wickedness (displeasing of God). Not just one person either but multiples, and over time. Whoever came along. The chapter compares it to adultery, and putting something before God after claiming to be a Christian or one of His people is the same act. In a marriage adultery is putting someone before your spouse. The example is clear. In adulterous relationships often the adulterer is paid for the relationship, in the case of Israel, that is reversed. They take the blessings of God and give them away to those that they are putting first before God. As individuals this can happen too.

God wants to bless us greatly, and yet we are willing to "give it away" to settle for less. Give away steak to eat a hot dog.

God will respond by removing His blessings, effectively stripping them down to what they really are. Really not even that far, for life itself is a gift from God. Otherwise we would be a bucket of dust. All we have is really God's - make no mistake , and it is His to let us enjoy, or to take away.

People are often only nice to us because we have something they want, or would like to use. What we actually are is not very valuable, and reduced to something close to our true value we would not be very desirable. At that point we would appear very needy as Israel did, and it would then make logical sense to kill them and put them out of their misery, rather than support them. How many of us have ever had a "fair weather friend", same idea.

Samaria (Israel) is the older sister, Sodom is the younger sister. This address is to the kingdom of Judah, and since it is long preserved, it has application today. Haven't we lived as them in regards to our relationship with God? Judah has actually done worse than Israel or Sodom. The sin of Sodom in God's eyes is that they lived in the lap of luxury, proud, gluttonous and lazy and ignored and oppressed the poor. Their lives were obscene and they thought they were better than they actually were. God's verdict destruction- no righteous left.

Judah actually makes Sodom and Israel look righteous. Look- or appear - not are. Judah will have to accept their shame, we will need to accept our shame and shortcomings as well. We need to realize that apart from God we are a bucket of dust, and live accordingly.

Just like the chapter began with God showing His great love for us, it ends. Even with our shortcomings, our openly and actively displeasing Him, He loves us. He made a covenant with us (Judah). He'll make a new covenant with us when we remember our shortcomings, our place as it were. We will remember with shame our former life and bad decisions, and yet God will make it right. We will be speechless.

Ezekiel 17

The great tree, a symbol of the king of Babylon coming and taking the leader of Judah and all the best of Judah into exile. He then appoints another member of the royal family who makes a covenant of allegiance to Babylon. The Lord is very serious about covenants, Zedekiah the appointed king breaks the covenant by trying to form an alliance with Egypt. His thinking is that an alliance with a strong country would allow him to remain king and get out of his covenant.

In modern times we make treaties to prevent wars, as a deterrence, but it really caused the last two world wars.

A covenant is important to God, He wants us to keep our word even if its to our own detriment, so in one sense one must be careful of the promises one makes, even if its one that would allow you to be king. Did the Egyptian Pharaoh not aid Zedekiah because he knew him to be untrustworthy? God said it would happen, but there was a mechanism in the Egyptians' minds that prevented it in real terms.

God expects us to keep our word, and not give it lightly. This is also His heart towards us. He will keep His word, and He doesn't give it lightly. Zedekiah when making his oath to Nebuchadnezzar probably swore on the name of the Lord. Breaking his oath will mean he will die in Babylon- which happened.

Chapter 17 ends with a glimpse forward, a leader (Christ) that the world will recognize that God had planted. The world will also realize that God keeps His word.

WordListeners 1/24/2010 -Ezekiel 12 and 13

2010-01-26T19:45:00.001-08:00

On Sunday night we had two for word listeners. The conversation was lively and we covered only 2 chapters - Ezekiel 12 and 13.

The notes are as follows:

Ezekiel 12

A rebellious people eyes that don't see and ears that don't hear. Blindness and deafness we often feel is a tragedy but is God using it as an example that there is more to life than perfect health in this world? We know the blind miss out on some beautiful sights, and that the deaf miss out on some beautiful sounds, but here is an example of people that were missing out on God. There is more to life than this physical world.

Ezekiel is to be a sign act again, he is to act out going into exile. An example for people to see rather than just words of warning. A visual. He is to act out the people's fate (if they don't turn- a chance was given in Jeremiah to Zedekiah), and in particular the fate of Zedekiah, who will go into exile blind - not seeing the country he is taken too, nor the country he is leaving from again. Since he couldn't "see" the truth of God, why did he need eyes?

Into exile, tunneling through walls and escaping -or trying to in the middle of the night. Some will survive to be a witness about how God punished their disobedience. They will realize that it was from God and will tell people.

Eat shaking, during the siege the fear will be there. The land will stripped bare for all the sin during punishment.

Prophecy is often assumed to be at a "later time". The people had assumed all these warnings are for later. It is easy to see for us who live very limited times in comparison to God who is timeless to come to that conclusion. God's word is often delayed, but it won't be for the generation being warned in Jerusalem. God always keeps His promises. His timing may be delayed, and the fulfillment often comes in stages, but it does happen.

Ezekiel 13

Prophecy is a message from God. People make up things out of their own head and call it a message from God. It happened then and it still happens today. Why? They think they have insight that others don't have, which seemingly makes them better than other people. Which is a sign of pride and not a message from God. If you are going to be God's messenger or prophet, then you need to be able to hear from Him. Time, place and method of hearing. To rely on what "comes to mind" can be an overactive imagination, or a thought of the enemy in addition to really being of God. We have the real thing - His word. We can share how we as an individual "see God in this passage". In thinking about His word, we need to think about how Jesus is manifested - in some way. We also need to dwell on the word of God, reading it and thinking about it often.

Getting back to prophets who make things up, they are doomed. Their messages won't align with God's word, their intentions are selfish, they aren't truly seeking God's will, or following it. They have fallen into the trap of pleasing men. In the second paragraph it implies these prophets talk but don't act. Are they so convinced their message is from God that they are willing to go it alone? Repairing the city, preparing for the future needs.

Lying or false prophets will not be part of God's people. They withhold from God's people the truth, or soften it in some way. Not unlike people in job situations that set out to deceive their workers, because the truth (in their opinion) is too unpleasant to fully disclose. In that time the prophets in Jerusalem denied that judgment was coming. In our time there is denial that God will act and allow the judgment predicted in the end times of the Bible. Its God's world, when He is ready it will happen, and it won't be pleasant for those who have denied Him. Those that have accepted Him, He will protect (in some way)- He has done it in the past, in similar situations on a smaller scale, but the same things have come to pass. When His wrath is let loose (interesting that the message edition uses Hurricane and I had talked about Katrina earlier) it will be bigger than man can make, and the messages of the false prophets who spoke comfort will be just that empty messages not truly from God.

So how do you know if your prophet is receiving messages from God or making them up out of his/her own mind? The short answer is you don't. You have to develop your relationship with the Lord, you have to "listen" for God in His word, or in other ways He may choose to manifest His message. Be very careful of listening to men and their thoughts. They may very well be from God, and they may very well not be.

In the end of the chapter he has a message against women prophets. Like the others they made up things in their own minds, just to get ahead materially in this life. God will deliver His people from their influence, and He wants to deliver us all. He delivers us by sending Christ and allowing us to get our own message from Him, usually through His written Word. We all want God to speak a new and different word to each of us, but then wouldn't He be singling us out and potentially feeding our pride? So He may very well not.

Jan 10, 2010 Ezekiel chs 8-11

2010-01-10T17:43:00.001-08:00

Wordlisteners met tonight after a long absence during Christmas. There was 2 in attendance, and we discussed Ezekiel Chapters 8-11.

In chapter 8 we wondered why people turn to idols and feel God does not see them. A less than proper understanding of God is the only way you can come to the point where you feel God does not see what you do.

Additionally God cannot be controlled, and often our fear (really our wants) keep us from submitting to His will because He knows better than we do what is best for us.

In Chapter 9 we see that God is meticulous and marks those in Jerusalem deserving death. He also evacuated the righteous from Sodom and Gomorrah prior to judgment. So to say God allows innocent people to die and be killed is to elevate oneself to His level.

In Chapter 10 it was pointed out that Ezekiel's vision is similar to the one in Revelation that is the throne of God in heaven.

In Chapter 11 we get a glimpse of the millennial reign in versus 17-20.

Jesus is coming. He came as a Savior, and He is coming back as a ruling King. Not sure what to do? pray for God's guidance and follow His leadings. When not sure don't, God can raise up someone else if he needs to. Don't not follow God out of fear, or laziness, but continue bringing your concerns to Him, you'll get clear signals at some point..

Below are my reading notes.

Ezekiel 8 Why do people make up and serve other gods? In reading Ezekiel Chapter 8 God shows Ezekiel all the ways people are worshiping other gods in addition to Jehovah. The shrines are by His temple, and some of it even goes on in His temple. Examples are a sex god alter near the temple- in sight and an image in the temple. Pictures of animals in the temple being worshiped by leaders of Israel in the dark thinking God does not see. Weeping for the fertility god of the Babylonians, and finally inside the temple to 25 men with their backs to God's temple worshiping the sun. Back to my original question- why other gods?

Its clear the vision they have of God isn't big enough in some cases. The larger He is the smaller we have to admit we are. At some point we realize we are not in control and He is. This is scary for people who also don't make the supposition that God knows what He is doing, and its OK for Him to be in control. Our self takes a hit, we are not in control, and the ground of our mind is fertile to grow the thought that God might send us somewhere we don't want to go, or ask us to do something we don't want to do. We cling to our existence, start liking and enjoying certain aspects, and want more. We easily forget that it was God that gave us all this in the first place, and then somehow add the insult to Him that we don't believe He is capable of continuing to provide.

Since a near proper concept of God would clearly mean we cannot control Him, it is easy to fall into the distraction of creating things we can control. These gods will after all only require from us what we are willing to give whereas God may ask something of us we feel is not reasonable. We should be willing to give to God what He asks but that can be a fearful thought. So lets look at some of these gods.

The sex one- pleasure, we all like pleasurable experiences. Sex is a way for God to bless us - with bonding and with children, but we often want to be in control, and children mean sacrifice. Are we willing to give it? We reason that we should be able to have all the pleasure we want without any consequences to ourselves. So the pleasure of sex can easily outweigh any of the responsibility. In this chapter there is the example of those praying to the fertility god. This clearly is putting something ahead of God who is the One who blesses with children.

Those hiding in the dark thinking God doesn't see, don't have a near proper concept of Him. The last one was worshipers with their backs to God's Temple. A turning of their backs to God. In going after or creating gods we control that give us the answers we want to hear we are in fact turning our backs to God. We are becoming distracted by ourselves and our wants rather than His. This ultimately leads to our suffering, and the suffering of others in the interim before we get to the point of being personally affected.

God says He wants to be first. He says He is jealous. It may seem selfish on His part, but He is God. He is about taking care of His creation (namely us and this world we live in), and He means taking care of all of us, not just a few at the expense of others as we would want Him to do. Our concept of Him needs to be such that we realize He is doing it, even when we have no idea how. Then we will realize that when we don't put Him first we are hurting ourselves, and Him first is in our best interest.

Ezekiel 9 God is meticulous and pays attention to the individual. Collectively the city of Jerusalem was in sin, but as in most cases that probably didn't include everyone. So God sent an angel or some being to mark those that were not worthy of the death and destruction he had decreed on the city. The people marked were actually spared. God got the righteous out of Sodom and Gomorrah before He destroyed it, and wasn't willing to destroy an entire city if there were just a few righteous in it. He is all about justice and fairness although that remains an area we have a difficult time conceptually. Those without the mark were put to the sword without compassion because they felt no anguish at the conditions of Jerusalem. The people had stated that God had forsaken Jerusalem (probably because of the wickedness) but in fact God was there in the midst of it and knew exactly what was going on and what each and every individual was thinking and their heart condition.

Ezekiel 10 Here we have the vision of God again at the temple. God commanded coals be taken and spread out over the city. Is this God commanded destruction of the city? The Temple is presently filled with glory of God, but the presence of God is about to leave His Temple. So after years and multiple prophet warnings the glory of God is leaving the Temple, He is going to turn His head and let His Temple and His people be profaned because of their disobedience. They are still called His people even though they have turned their backs to Him.

Vs 14 is similar to the throne of God vision in Revelation, and the beings that guard God's throne. 3 of the 4 things described are the same.

Ezekiel 11 Ezekiel is carried by the spirit of the Lord from exile to Jerusalem (Halley's calls it "raptured"). With the initial group of the "best of Judah" (exiles) removed from Jerusalem another set of leaders stepped up and took control. They now gave advice and their pride is clear- they think they are the meat in the pot. They also believe God put them there after removing the others. This is not unlike the self proclaimed high priest in Jeremiah. Ezekiel is told to stand against them- God knows their thoughts, and evil is rampant in the city (as shown in the Chapter 10). Those they have killed are really the meat, they will be removed from the city. They fear war so war is what they will get (Prov 10:24) further evidence of their wickedness. They will be delivered into stranger's hands for judgment. When they see themselves falling by the sword they will remember the prophecy against them and know the God is God, hopefully they repented. Why? they didn't walk in God's statutes. They led the nation into being just like the nations around them rather than following God- sound familiar. We want to be "like the other nations" rather than being like the US. During this prophecy a person died, and Ezekiel wondered if God would take everyone.

14- The new leaders in Jerusalem then state their case for their authority- namely that the others had been taken away. They associated being in Jerusalem and near God's temple as justification for their authority. Their vision of God is limited, and Ezekiel prophecies that God provides a sanctuary for those He has removed that God will gather them back up and bring them back to Israel. They will remove idols, and will be given a new heart, and walk in the ordinances of God. They will be His people. Halley's Bible handbook says that even though they remain guilty of other sins they are not idolaters. Idolaters will be chased down by God and their conduct will be on their heads. Ezekiel is then returned to the people in exile.

17-20 describes the millennial reign. This has been partially but not completely fulfilled. Yes the Israelites came out of exile, yes they don't have the same issue with idolatry. They don't have God, or all their land, so it can't be complete.

Nov. 22, 2009 Ezekiel 6 and 7

2009-11-26T04:44:00.001-08:00

For Wordlisteners on Nov 22, 2009 we had 12 people. It was our guest
leader's last night. The discussions were lively. He asked how we
would react to a message from God of gloom and doom, and there was a
lively discussion around that. Fear is generally not a good long term
motivator. The time around 9/11 was remembered, people came to church
for a while, and then stopped. The Christian life was eloquently put
forth as a good way to live, that most people cannot deny.

The people of the time we talked about were most stubborn. Yet somehow
God was about to show them that He is God. He also warned them. My
thoughts on Hurricane Katrina pervade my notes below, and that topic did
not come up. I left them in there anyway.

Our next meeting will be December 13th, 2009 unless the Lord comes
before then.

Ezekiel 6

Mountain idols are smashed, later in Ezekiel, the mountains will be blessed. Time spent making and worshiping idols was time spent being selfish and not serving God. There are consequences for doing our own thing or what we think is best, or not paying attention to God.

All the wasted effort put forth into serving something other than God, coupled with all the pain and misery caused (to others). Pagan shrines are mentioned, not service to God. It takes a while to have a shrine. God will make it clear to these people He is God.

Was hurricane Katrina sent by God? I see mixed signals.
First if it was from God He would have warned us. Was there a report about the weakness of the dike system? Were we not able to see it coming across the gulf? What is the reason for building a substantial part of a city near a coast, and below sea level? Was pride at work? God has a history of warning before impending doom, giving people a chance to repent and turn. He has a history of warning people whether they were obedient and listening to the warnings or not. Judah had impending doom, Jeremiah, Isaiah and Ezekiel were warnings before it happened, and to all people.

Second if God had sent it we would have learned, He has a unique way of getting our attention and training us. Did we learn from New Orleans? Evidently not we rebuilt it, if anything our pride was strengthened, our resolve that we can have a city below sea level.

Third we see death and destruction as a negative, a bad thing, and therefore are hesitant to assign God as responsible. He certainly allowed the hurricane. He certainly is capable of making things right. He is after all about justice and fairness.

God is warning these people of what is about to happen. In Jeremiah 44 there is a passage, after the destruction of Jerusalem, after the people were warned not to go to Egypt but did anyway, and after Jeremiah warned them (15 years ahead of time) that destruction was coming. They said the reason their life was not going well was because they were not sacrificing as they should to the queen of heaven. These people were stubbornly selfish.

God will let a few escape, but it is interesting that He says He is devastated by their betrayals. God is hurt by their voracious lust for self gratification. During this God will show them what really matters. In the middle of Katrina, I'm sure helpless feelings abounded and prayers were offered up, and the focus was largely on God. All the cars, houses, locations, and possessions suddenly didn't matter.

My next focus is difficult to explain. There are consequences for not following God, for not being obedient. We want blessings without giving obedience or sacrificing in the way He asks (giving ourselves back to Him). We naturally want things our way. Yet to be God's people we have to deny self, its for the greater good. This statement seemingly implies that the Lord is a "kill joy", and yet it is our selfish acts of doing what we want and wanting our way that are the "kill joy" of others. Then we step up and defend our actions and beliefs as being good, but our actions if not God directed can hurt others. Although we will justify and convince ourselves, when we are the victim of injustice we will even more staunchly defend our case for our actions. In other words we are never ready to be on the receiving end of the injustices we cause. We would reject having to endure pain and suffering to satisfy the pleasure of others. God isn't a kill joy, it is His way (and only His) that allow all the opportunity to live fulfilled lives in peace and harmony.

Ezekiel 7

End-time, the verdict on the way people live. They will have to suffer for their selfish practices and choices. Anything done that doesn't glorify God is a selfish practice. He has to this point looked the other way, but has decided to be patient no longer. It will be so bad for them that they will know its from God (without mixed signals). It will be of a magnitude that man isn't capable of. Hurricane Katrina certainly wasn't of man in those terms.

Ignoring God - being selfish leads to obscenities and others getting hurt. Then adding pride by thinking we have always gotten away with it, or that we know best. We are so smart we feel we choose to rely on our own knowledge rather than what He says. We want to go our own direction rather than where He leads.

A similarity between then and now, so striking. An economic crisis will hit Jerusalem. Its easy for us to see if it is surrounded by enemies. Don't we have one? They like we are looking for an economic fix, but it is their sin that has bankrupt them. Their choices. Sound familiar. Anarchy will then break out it is said- no one marches out for battle when the trumpet sounds. Real unemployment is approaching 1 in 5 in our time and we hear the rumblings of desperation. The fields are nearing "white", people are starting to lose their treasures and idols. They are becoming more aware of their sins. Some aren't, like the Jews in Egypt, they will continue to push for what doesn't work and clearly avoid the truth and continue to deny God. Money becomes (or will) worthless in Jerusalem. If you are hungry and there is no food then it doesn't matter your riches. Dave Ramsay said that a case of bottled water during the weeks after Katrina was worth quite a lot, and gold meant nothing- interesting how those things come to mind. Judah it says tripped over wealth and fell into sin. They became proud of their wealth, and it took their focus off of God. God will show them that the things they feel are important but truly aren't will be trod upon. He will let His temple be defiled because of the people's disobedience to Him. He will deal with their pride.

Catastrophe after catastrophe, disaster after disaster, then the people will seek answers, but nobody will have any. The prophets (God's messengers) no answers. The priests- religious leaders- no answers. The king - political leaders- no answers. The warnings came before, His back is now turned, but mercy is available to those that genuinely seek it. Just like during the time during Katrina in the midst of the storm, when all the technology of man could not help a single soul, God answered those who called to Him, just maybe not in the ways we would have wanted Him to. Glory to God.

Nov 15, 2009 Ezekiel 3:22-5

2009-11-19T07:19:00.001-08:00

For Word Listeners on Nov 15th we had 15 people in attendance. Our
Guest speaker Drew continued leading us through Ezekiel. He had a
handout, and we learned about "sign-acts". I made some notes from the
meeting, and then included my notes from the reading of the scripture.

We look forward to next week with Drew.

God's message - Ezekiel a watchman for Israel. He is to relay the
warnings he hears from God to them. This is the charge given to all
prophets. God emphasizes the importance of obedience in following His
call. If Ezekiel warns and they ignore then the consequences are on
those that ignored the warning. if Ezekiel doesn't share the warning,
then he is responsible for the consequences. This is a truly fearful
passage as to the responsibility we have to share what God has given us.
What if it turns out badly? Its a faith opportunity, how big is God
compared to our circumstances? Is He able to deliver us?- we say it all
the time. God's warnings are a matter of life and death. Its true He
wants relationship with all people, but He has the standard of Holiness.

God wanted to further speak to him so He sent him out to the plain (away from distractions? - prayer closet- of sorts?). The spirit entered him (Holy Spirit) Go home and remain silent - tied up at home. He'll see the wrong people are doing but will not be able to speak until the time is ripe. God will at that time free his tongue to share the message. What marvelous comfort for those of us who struggle with whether we should warn people of their poor choices or not. He (God) will free our tongue to warn people when the time is right, and He wants us to. Its not something of our own strength but God working through us (Holy Spirit). In the meantime our life of obedience is always a witness to the things of God. The more fearful question may be - Would your actions warrant a conviction in a court to the accusation of being a Christian? Does God now really make a difference in your life, are you His people set apart or distinct from those who are not?

God puts His message out there (through His obedient servants), the people out there can listen or not whichever they like- sounds like free will.

Ezekiel 4

"Sign-acts" act out what God is saying. In this chapter Ezekiel provides a visual of the siege of Jerusalem. Using a brick to represent Jerusalem. There is strong evidence that some people are "visual" learners, and here we are 2700 years ago God providing to those people something other than words to bring about His message. God already knew what we let people "study".

Now we have a Jesus glimpse, Ezekiel is told to lie on his side and take the sins of the people on himself. He is to bear the sin of Israel for 390 days and the sins of Judah - on his other side for 40 days. He will have a minimal diet and minimal water (just like those in Judah and Israel will experience in exile). He is on his side one day for each year of sin. To survive they will have to eat unclean food, relationship and obedience to God is the important point, not foods consumed. In Hebrews 4:14-16 Paul says our High Priest (Jesus) knows of our sufferings, He has been there. Ezekiel also has experienced the pain. God knows our struggles.

During the siege there will be famine, God warned them. Its up to them to listen or not.

Ezekiel 5

Another action (visual or sign act) acting out what will happen after the siege. The people of Jerusalem are represented by Ezekiel's hair which he was asked to cut off. One third of them will be burned up in the city (people), another third will be killed by the sword (chopped up), the last third will be thrown to the wind (escape) but will be chased by the sword. God said it, it will happen, and it did, He has standards and we make choices, and our choices will have consequences in His creation. A few hairs are protected and thrown in the fire, this fire will spread to the whole family of Israel.

Why would God do this? Isn't He a God of Love, who doesn't keep records of wrongs? He doesn't keep a record of wrongs for those who repent and allow Him to change them. If however you choose to do your own thing His patience may end. There is no contradiction here. We ourselves are more ready to forgive those who realize they have hurt us, rather than those that don't care that they did, but then again we are made in the image of God. God explains why He is letting Jerusalem be destroyed.

Jerusalem was placed by God to be an example for the world. His people also were to be an example, but with their free will they chose not to be. They rebelled against Him and ignored Him (or tried to). So He will use them as an example to the world of what happens when the creation denies the creator. His desire was for their good, but His plan is completed, they were an example for the world. Their choices and trying to survive will lead to cannibalism, something they never considered to be the result of their actions I'm sure. What are the results of your actions and choices if they don't include God? Do you choose to ignore Him, and then expect Him to protect you from the consequences of your unrepentant choices?

The hair was the visual, now a plain word explanation. A third of Jerusalem's people will die of famine and disease, a third will be killed by the invaders outside the city, and a third will escape but be on the run the rest of their lives. God is jealous and denying Him is really putting something else before Him. He will allow His Temple to be destroyed, Jerusalem will be that example for the world, and even though it is in what we might consider a bad way, it will be clear that God sent it.

Nov 8, 2009 Ezekiel 1-3:23, and a Jeremiah resource link

2009-11-19T04:33:00.001-08:00

Word Listeners met on Nov 8th and 15th, I'll send in notes from the 15th
soon.

One additional thing I had gotten a while back was a link to some
teachings on Jeremiah. I've been meaning to share it, but haven't until
now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Cdqb31ty4&feature=channel

The posting for Nov. 8, 2009 Wordlisteners Ezekiel 1-3:23 is as follows:

We had 18 for Wordlisteners tonight, and we eagerly awaited for our
guest leader to lead us through Ezekiel. He gave us some background on
Ezekiel and we read and discussed Chs 1-3:21. I made notes and typed
them up, they are as follows:

Ezekiel 1
Ezekiel was of the priestly tradition. He was part of the early exile
of Jews from Judah to Babylon. In reading his book (which God has kept
for us) the following general themes can be seen.
Judgment
Syncretism- mixed worship practices pagan and Jewish
Restoration
Temple worship- the presence of God
Theodicy- how do we know God is with us. How do we experience Him.

In this chapter Ezekiel has a vision of God. Its awesome, maybe scary.
In thinking about how God appeared throughout the Bible, there is
usually great fear associated by those coming into the presence of God.
Our leader contrasted this with Elijah's still small voice. The vision
represents a mobile God, a God that was going with His people into
exile.

One comment was about the four faces on the vision and four facets of
God (we usually think of Him as a Trinity).

God is everywhere.

Ezekiel 2

A very short chapter about Ezekiel's call by God, Israel had been
selfish - worshiping other God's. God is still loyal to His chosen
people despite their disobedience. He is to go to them and speak God's
word- the work of a prophet- whether the people listen or not.

Ezekiel 3

God handed him a scroll of lamentations and doom and told him to eat it.
God's word literally being ingested. It shows the importance of reading
and study. In eating the Word it was sweet in his mouth. Seemingly
unpleasantness when associated with God is pleasant.

He is warned that the people of Israel are stubborn. God will make him
more stubborn in order to get His message out regardless of the
circumstances. God is far more long-suffering than we are as evidenced
by how long He kept Jerusalem from being destroyed. He is also more
stubborn.

He sends Ezekiel to the people of Israel, and he waits seven days before
God gives him a message. 7, the number of creation, the number of
mourning and for this people renewal. The number of completeness.

We stopped at verse 21.

October 25, 2009 -Ezekiel 36:22-38

2009-10-27T19:54:00.001-07:00

WordListeners met October 25th, we had four people in attendance. We
had hoped to start a guest leader for this meeting but it didn't happen.
My reading had led me to the end of Ezekiel, so I went over my notes
from 36:22-38. They were well received. Discerning God's will and then
living it out is important. God acts for Himself, and not for us, and
not because things are bad (necessarily).

Here are my notes.

Ezekiel 36
The title in this section is that the mountains of Israel will be blessed. I'm starting at (Vs 22) for now. The first thing it says is that God doesn't act for our sake, but for the sake of His Holy (sacred) name which Israel has profaned (desecrated). No matter how badly we treat each other, and its getting pretty bad, its about God and His name. The more we profane God and His name the more likely we will treat each other badly. For it is God and His Spirit in place that makes life have any goodness it does. The Lord will vindicate His Holy name, by showing Himself Holy in the sight of all.

How? He will start by taking Israel (Jews and Christians?) from the nations, gathering them from all lands and bringing them into their own land (promised to them). A glimpse of this is happening, but its not complete.

He will then cleanse them (us) with water, and put a new spirit and heart in them, which will cause us to walk in His statutes and ordinances. This is sort of what happens when we accept Christ. It goes further to say we'll live in the land and be His people.

He will then bless the crops- no famine, other nations may however experience it.

We will remember our past deeds and loathe ourselves. We will be ashamed of our ways. Having a knowledge of them and being greatful for His better ways. He will not do this for us, but rather to show Himself. On a "day" that He cleanses us from our iniquity - on that day he will cause the cities to be inhabited and waste places rebuilt (sounds like a sudden influx of people).

Formerly desolate land will be cultivated, and all will see it. The land will become like a garden of Eden, and waste, desolate and ruined cities will be inhabited and fortified. Now when the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem the towns were made desolate, so that has happened, but it could happen again.

This will be a sign for the nations around that He is the Lord. A witness for the world- sounds like what some call a "prosperity gospel" in that the Lord will bless His people with crops and abundance while others (that don't follow Him- by their own choice) may experience famine. He spoke it, it will happen.

Israel will then increase like a flock, the waste cities will be filled with flocks of men.

Ezekiel 37
The Lord took him in spirit to a valley of dry bones. It is interesting that in the message edition Assyria and Babylon are said to have eaten Israel, and spit out bones. In Jeremiah 7:32-8:2 and in Jeremiah 50:17 the references to the destruction of Israel and then Judah are clear.

At the valley he is told to prophesy over the bones, and when he does the bones come together and flesh becomes attached. These bodies are not breathing until he is told to prophecy breath into them. Then they are fully alive.

The next section explains what we just read. The bones are the "whole" house of Israel. Does this include the Christians? Christians do become part of the house of Israel. There is also the statement that God will make graves open, and He will bring them into the land of Israel. The opening of the graves, and resurrection of the dead will show those resurrected and others that He is Lord.

At this point I'm reminded of the NT story of the resurrection of Lazarus. Jesus heard he was sick, and could have gone to heal him, but instead waited until he had died to act. In the story there was greater awe over a resurrection than there would have been over a healing.

I think the breath in the bones that reformed bodies is the spirit of God. God will put His spirit in them and place them in their land (Israel). The Lord does this and people know He is God. Since this is somewhat unbelievable we are reminded that what the Lord speaks He will do, it will happen.

I think this is more than Cyrus releasing the exiles from Babylon, and sending them home. God certainly brought that about as well, but there are end times - after many years of prophecy going on as well.

Verse 15 two sticks. Judah and Ephraim joined together one nation. One people after Babylonian exile, but not a nation until 1948. Was 1948 an act of God? an act of man trying to force God's hand? God made it happen, or He allowed it. God is sovereign. God will restore Israel and David will be their king, that description hasn't happened yet. The people will also follow His statutes and ordinances. Looking those up they run from Leviticus 18 to the end.

These are listed after sin and atonement offerings. Hebrews 9:23 states Jesus was the perfect sin offering allowing us back into right relationship with God. The following of His statutes by His restored people is mentioned plenty. These statutes involve sacrifices. Ezekiel describes a temple that hasn't been built yet (clearly, and may be the one of the 1000 year reign), but it has tables where animal sacrifices are prepared. This really bothered me except for the following:

1. Our giving of money or tithing could be considered a sacrifice. It is an active sign of our acknowledgement of who God is. In that time (Ezekiel's) animals were capital (money). Since we still give tithes and offerings, after Jesus, it is plausible that some sacrifices will happen in the millenial reign. As described by Ezekiel in Chapter 40 and beyond.

2. In Leviticus the sin offering and atonement is first, then the following of the statutes and ordinances. Some of the sacrifices were clearly to support our fellow men, the priests, the poor, etc. In the 1000 year reign we will very gladly serve each other putting the needs of others first.

I've been meaning to make a list of all the sacrifices and offerings required in the OT.

Back to Ezekiel, Israel will live in the land given to Jacob with Jesus as Prince forever. God will place them there (after period in heaven?, or instantly in the process of restoring His people?) He will multiply them, and set His sanctuary in their midst (described later). God will dwell with them (in Israel) and nations will know God is Lord when His sanctuary is in their midst forever. Jerusalem a light to the world.

Now if and I underline if this happens just prior to the trib period, imagine Jesus on the throne, His spirit poured out, the dead resurrected and brought forth to live there also.
Would city defenses be necessary?
Would the nation seem to be at peace and seemingly defenseless?

Ezekiel 38
Gog a nation from the North, God will use them to demonstrate He is God.

Verse 8 is interesting- Israel is a land restored from the sword. Can be interpreted a couple ways. restored from the sword = war torn (1948), restored from the sword = a land where wars don't happen anymore, the people truly follow God, worshipping and relying on Him.

The invaders coming- are they more likely to attack an armed Israel or one that is following the Lord at peace? Kind of hard to imagine, but the power of God is greater than we can imagine. Large numbers are indicated, interestingly it is our new military tactic- overwhelm the enemy. This can mean an attack expecting resistance. The statement that people are living securely- probably has never described current Israel.

The enemy will come like a cloud against a peaceable people living without bars or gates. Back in 36 the waste cities of Israel will be inhabited and fortified, yet without bars and gates? Their intent isn't stated to be anihilation but rather to plunder and spoil. Back in Chapter 36 the Lord states in vs 29 and 30 that when Israel is restored He will not allow the disgrace of famine. When the Lord turned His back to Jerusalem in Jeremiah famine soon followed. If restoring Israel and making the statement He is God then famine to the north could occur, while Israel has plenty, making them a clear plunder and spoil target.

It will be a day of plunder when Israel is living securely, and Gog knows it (vs 14)- peace treaty?

This invasion has been prophesied for many years by the prophets of Israel (vs 17)

Gog will be used to sanctify or set apart God. He will set Himself apart and call attention to Himself through their act of invasion and His response.

His response is said to be earthquakes in Israel (worldwide?- all the people of the earth will feel it). Mountains flattened. The invaders will turn on each other in panic, and fire and brimstone will rain down.

This will magnify God, set Him apart, and make Him known in the sight of many nations.

Oct 18, 2009 Jeremiah 50-52

2009-10-18T18:39:00.001-07:00

Tonight we had 5 for Wordlisteners, and finished the last three chapters
of Jeremiah (50-52). It is so good to read and reflect on God's word,
that He has preserved for us in this time. The comparison that Babylon
was beyond fixing and the state of the world today we wondered about.

Next week we have a guest speaker to lead us in a study- I hope. If not
then we'll probably discuss our individual readings over the course of
the upcoming week.

My notes are as follows:

Chapter 50
Chapter 50 and 51 were written seven years before the fall of Jerusalem. They were sent as a booklet to the exiles in Babylon to be read to them publicly. The exile in Babylon lasted 70 years, so these chapters were written around 70 years before it happened.

Babylon will fall, God proclaims it, and what He says happens. A nation from the north will reduce Babylon's cities to rubble, complete destruction- no people, no animals, no breath.

The people of Israel and Judah will seek God, and ask directions to Zion bound in covenant eternal they will never forget. Has this happened yet? Babylon is mostly desolate, but not completely, Israel doesn't talk very much about their covenant with God. I think it partially fulfilled after the initial fall of Babylon, but maybe not completely? I have a resource that has as part of the notes on Ezekiel that Israel has not had an idolatry problem since the fall of Jerusalem and exile.

Israel was lost sheep, wandering aimlessly, everyone took advantage of them. Fair game, they walked out on God and were allowed to be persecuted.

For now they are told to leave Babylon (when they see a host of nations destroying it), a host of nations will destroy it. Why? The nation of Babylon turned to pride. Its mother wouldn't be proud. They have been reduced to a trash heap. Babylon sinned against the Lord.

Israel is a scattered flock, started by Assyria (Israel) and finished by Nebuchadnezzar (Judah). Babylon is doomed like Assyria, but Israel will be brought home. There will be a day when Israel will not be found to have any guilt. Has this happened yet?

Merathaim is southern Babylon, and Pekod is eastern Babylon- the destruction will be complete.

Babylon went from being a tool of God for judgment, to being an object of His wrath- they chose to take on God (became prideful). God allowed them to take the city and burn the Temple, and then later punishes them for destroying the Temple. Their attitude changed in the process. Pride crept in. The Lord will rescue Israel (which He sent into exile), and destroy Babylon.

Their gods are make believe gods, and Babylon will join Sodom and Gommorrah as cities done away with.

People pouring out of the north attacking, fear and trembling by the Babylonians. Then the Lord like a lion from the jungles of the Jordan will pounce. The young and vulnerable will be dragged off, others will watch helpless.

Chapter 51
Still more hurricane Persia will clean up Babylon- taking all that is worth anything. The destruction will be complete. Israel and Judah were not widowed, God is still committed to them event though THEY filled their land with sin.

God is paying back Babylon, so run (when it happens). Babylon was used by God to punish others and now there is no fix for them- no balm.

Babylon is past fixing. Will there be a time our present situation will be past fixing?

God has set things right for Judah, lets share what He has done. Here come the Medes, Babylon had plenty of money and wealth but God was the lifeline, and has now been cut. Instead invading soldiers. The God of Jacob is real, He made the world and crafted the cosmos, he sends the rain. Those that worship other gods will look foolish. They will be shown as powerless. He pays attention to Israel.

Babylon was God's hammer, but now they will punished for all the evil they did in Zion. God is the enemy Babylon has to worry about, He will crush them until only gravel remains. Other problems and situations seem real and significant to us, but only God matters. No hanging gardens.

Many nations are called to perform the holy work of Babylon's destruction. Destruction as holy work - the will of God is holy work. Man's desires have no good purpose unless they align with God's.

The land trembles over God's plans for Babylon. Spoken around 70 years before it happened. God's plan to make Babylon a moonscape. The soldiers of Babylon- once fearsome will cower and run. City after city is taken and burned. God said this would happen.

Nebuchadnezzar chewed up God's people. Zion was brutalized, Jerusalem had blood spilled. God is taking revenge, Babylon is a dump, a sewer. They will drink themselves drunk (with pride) and then God will haul these lions to the slaughterhouse.

Babylon is finished, God said it. Ending in chaos and destruction. The wonders destroyed, run, God is torching the place. The no-gods of Babylon will be put into place. Heaven and earth, angels and people will throw a victory party.

Babylon falling is compensation for war dead in Israel. Babylonians killed for all their killing. David didn't kill Saul when he had the chance, even though he was to be king. Even though the Babylonians killed seemingly for God judgment, they didn't follow God's word.

Israel was taunted and abused. Humiliated, and God knew their feelings. He is bringing an end to Babylon in retribution, and nothing can stop it. God knows (or would) how it feels to be humiliated, taunted and abused by man.

God is the God of fairness, He evens things out. Babylon will sleep and never wake up. The harder you work at the empty life (things not of God), the less you are. Nothing comes from ambition apart from God but ashes. Babylon toiled for nothing because they didn't do it for God.

These books (two chapters) were sent to Babylon, publicly read (that God would overthrow it), and thrown into the Euphrates. Seraiah did this in the 4th year of Zedekiah's reign. Jerusalem fell in year 11 (seven years later). The exile for some was going on, for others it would begin later after the fall of Jerusalem.

Chapter 52
The final chapter of Jeremiah, a summary of events surrounding the fall and destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Zedekiah was appointed king by Nebuchadnezzar when he took the first set of exiles, he later rebelled against Nebuchadnezzar causing the siege and destruction to occur. He was considered an evil king.

For a review of kings:
Starting with Hezekiah- a good king

Then Manasseh- an evil king, he is referenced as the reason Judah is punished, the people followed him as he practiced terrible things, including burning of children. 2 Chr 33 says he was taken with a hook in his nose to Assyria where he repented and God accepted it allowing him to return to Jerusalem. I guess the man repented, but the practices he started and allowed continued.

Then Amon – evil

Then Josiah – well behaved- started reforms

Then Jehoahaz (all sons of their father to this point) Jehoahaz was taken to Egypt by the Egyptian king and his brother was established as king by the Egyptians.

Jehoiakim (Jehoahaz' brother) was evil- Nebuchadnezzar came he became Nebuchadnezzar's puppet. Later revolted

Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim's -son 2 Chr 36:8) became the next king – established by Babylonians (him or his father?)- Nebuchadnezzar later ordered him brought to Babylon as well along with Temple valuables. He surrendered to the Babylonians, and was taken prisoner and he was taken to Babylon with the "best of Judah" (rapture like- protected against destruction of the city?), but later released. In Jer 36:27-31 the promise of God to take away the throne of David from any son of Jehoiakim- Jehoiachin ruled three months- then not king, but in the lineage of Jesus. 2Chr 36:9-10. or over eight years (2 kings 24:12). Definitely some overlap between father and son somehow.

Matthew lists Josiah and Jehoiachin in the lineage of Jesus. Matt 1:10 Jehoiakim is the king that burned the scroll of Jeremiah.

Zedekiah (Jehoiachin's uncle – another son of Josiah Jer 27:1) was the next king- established by the Babylonians. He was evil, and rebelled against Babylon. This caused Nebuchadnezzar to come for the second time to Jerusalem. This is where it was destroyed completely and people killed indiscriminately.

The destruction of Jerusalem came about because God turned His back to them- its all He had to do. We think bad things happen, but God still protects us and desires us to come to our senses. We definitely don't deserve His protection. When He turns His back to us, really bad things happen as in the case of Jerusalem.

The final siege of Jerusalem lasted 19 months. Zedekiah tried to escape, was captured, watched his sons be killed, then blinded and taken to exile dying in prison. Remember God offered to prevent this if he would surrender, it was his choice. Zedekiah's advisors were also caught and killed in cold blood (Jer 24:27), there is no mention that God told Nebuchadnezzar to do this, and were they really a threat? Was this the beginning of the pride? It probably contributed.

When the temple was destroyed, all the bronze items were dismantled and taken to Babylon, the walls of the city were knocked down too.

Three different groups were taken into exile. A wave with Jehoiachin, a wave immediately after city destruction (taken over), and another about 5 years later when it was ultimately destroyed.

The kings were reviewed again because Jehoiachin who surrendered and was part of the first wave was later released (after 37 years) and got preferential treatment. He is also the one listed in the lineage of Jesus. After all that God was still looking after His people and keeping His promises.

10/11/2009 WordListeners Jeremiah 45-49

2009-10-11T18:30:00.001-07:00

Tonight for Wordlisteners we had 5 people. We discussed Jeremiah
Chapter 45-49. In Chapter 47 we hear that the usefulness of the
Philistines to God is no more so they will be destroyed. It is God's
desire that none should perish, but they also have to recognize God on
God's terms. God is also about justice and fairness, and He knows our
hearts.

In Chapter 48 the destruction of Moab is foretold. Verse 32 states that
God will cry with them, but He is sovereign.

It is stated at the end of many chapters that a day will come when God
will put things right.

In Chapter 49 verse 12 states that sometimes innocents will drink the
cup of God's wrath, and that He will make things right. Seemingly a
scary verse, it is comforting when thought about.

The notes I had are as follows:

Chapter 45
This chapter is back in time Chronologically, but may fits here from the prophetic aspect. These are bad times, God is piling on the pain , its one thing after another- which sounds like our day to day existence. There seems to be no end in sight.

But God says - what He has built He is about to wreck, what He has planted, He is about to rip up, and He is doing this all over the earth. Forget about making big plans for ourselves- we should focus on His plans, His will, His work. He also promises to protect us through His changes.

Chapter 46
A message for godless nations. The two world powers at this time were Egypt and Babylon. This was after the fall of the Assyrians. There was a Battle at Carchemish and the Babylonians won establishing them as the dominant power. Judah saw the coming the Babylonian threat and aligned with Egypt instead of relying on God. The first part of this chapter is a message to the Egyptians. They prepare for battle, and look impressive, but the soldiers have no resolve- panic breaks out, they run. Egypt with its impressive army including alliances (or hired soldiers) with Cush (Ethiopia), Put and Lud. But God is in control He will decide the outcomes. The Egyptians will look for help, cures, but they won't find any that work, only anguish.

Babylon had Jerusalem under siege and pulled back briefly to go fight the Egyptians. This message came to Jeremiah during that time (before the fall of Jerusalem). Egypt had hired soldiers, and looked impressive, they took the pay when it was easy, but when the real battle starts they won't be in it. They will run. The Babylonians will overrun them easily and level the country.

Then God says that Pharaoh will be turned over to Nebuchadnezzar. This didn't happen at this battle, but later after the fall of Jerusalem when the exiles fled to Egypt for "safety". True safety is only found in God.

God will save Jacob from that far country (the exiles in Babylon- at least in this instance). God will protect His people - depend on it. He isn't finished with them yet. The godless nations around them have to be finished off. They are only being fairly punished.

Chapter 47
The Philistines were in the land of Israel, and a constant concern during a lot of the kingdom of Israel and Judah. Goliath was one for instance. This chapter talks about the complete destruction of them. Its God's judgment on them, He never arbitrarily judges nations into extinction, its probably the result that they did not (for a long period of time) respond to His calls to come to Him. We don't have a record of God attempting to bring the Philistines (as a people) into His kingdom, and I believe its stated that He will use them in some way to help develop Israel.

One of the great misconceptions of the Bible that comes from not reading it fully and thoroughly is that God seems to arbitrarily decide who He will keep up and who He will destroy. The earth proclaims His majesty, His power and His glory, and His desire is that none should perish. He offers relationship with Himself to all, but some choose to reject that offer. In their choice to reject Him, He may use those people to help build the faith of those that do accept Him. There are plenty of examples of that. But the usefulness of those that reject Him seem to have limits, and the Philistines had reached that limit, so God's will for them was for them to be no more.

God is about doing justice, and taking care of each other. He is fair- He is probably the only one that is fair completely. In reading this chapter often the death of small "innocent" children come to mind as the invaders sweep in from the north (Babylonians). God is a god that insists on fairness, He knows the entire story, and He makes things fair even when we seemingly can't see how. The obvious difference is that we too often focus only on this life and not eternity. That is where His focus is. What a marvelous God.

Chapter 48
This is a prophecy concerning Moab. Lot had two daughters and both took advantage of their drunk father by sleeping with him. Moab was the son of one, and Ammon (ch 49) the son of the other. These two sons became nations. Moab had helped Nebuchadnezzar against Judah, siding with Judah's enemy, and was later destroyed by Babylon. This chapter predicts that. Cities leveled and of course the pain and suffering associated with that. Chemosh the god the primary god they worshiped (with child sacrifice) will be "hauled off" (Message) - an idol evidently. All the cities will be destroyed, and the land will become desolate. Why? Moab has always taken it easy, never worked, never faced trouble. They didn't serve God. They didn't listen to God, and since it is His world, He grew tired of it and acted. When men don't serve Him, they elevate themselves to the place of god, and then convince themselves they are god rather than God. He acts to correct and train.

Moab had made cruel jokes about Israel, and when they were caught in bad company. They became prideful (thinking they didn't need God). God doesn't want to do it, and is not happy about it (verse 32), yet He is sovereign, and they are disobedient. verse 42 says it best- there will be nothing left of Moab because of his defiant arrogance against God.

God will after destruction of Moab set a day that He will put things right in Moab, but for now judgment.

Chapter 49
Ammon - Lot's other daughter's son that also became a nation. The Ammonites took land from the Israelis. God is saying Ammon will be destroyed (Rabbah is the chief city), and then the Israelis can get their land back - God said it- its going to happen. Their god milcom (malcom, molech- children were sacrificed to it) will be hauled off. All because of their pride, they thought they were safe and couldn't be touched. Yet after God will make things right with Ammon.

Edom (from Jacob's brother Esau) a prophecy that God was going to bring doom to them (why?- because they don't practice justice, practicing justice and fairness comes about from knowing God. If you don't know God how can you be just? How can you be fair? Your motives are selfish and self serving. Yes there are people who don't acknowledge God that He works through anyway because He is God and can do that.

The accounts of Edom will be settled, they rejoiced at the fall of Jerusalem. We should not rejoice over other's misfortunes- even if it God's response to their lack of obedience to Him. Rather we should pray that they turn to Him and that He administers mercy.

Verse 12 is interesting - its about people suffering from God's wrath that don't deserve it, and here is confirmation that it happens. I tend to think of little children who haven't reached an age of decision, but there are others. God's judgment often affects their lives, and God is also the God of fairness, so how do we resolve that? I think its clear that justice and fairness don't necessarily apply to this life that we often cling to, but that God will make things fair in eternity. What comfort. If we are charged with making things fair in this life, then we better wrap everyone in bubble wrap, for it can't be done by human means. Yet over and over that is the claim made for this or that new law.

Edom will be charred ruins, dropped to last place among nations. Why? because of their pride. The helpless will be dragged off, and their cries will be heard, but Edom will be powerless. The prideful nation- powerless.

A message for Damascus, the once famous city will fall apart.

Kedar and Hazor will be attacked by Nebuchadnezzar and he will prevail.

Against Elam, their country will be destroyed making them refugees, and they will live in constant fear. Since Elam is Persia and now Iran, is this fear what is driving them? Yet Elam will be "made right" by God.

Jeremiah 39-44 Sept 27, 2009

2009-09-27T19:14:00.000-07:00

For Wordlisteners after a three week break it was good to meet again.
We will be off next week again for Praise and Worship, but look forward
to meeting again October 11.

For tonight's meeting we had 6 people in attendance and we covered
Jeremiah 39-44. I asked the members to pray for God's direction in
terms of what to cover next.

The lay speaking training class (our last two weeks - why we didn't
meet) had several suggestions for small groups. We seek His guidance.

My notes are as follows, the discussion was lively. Its amazing how
similar we often are to those people written about.

Chapter 39
The final siege of Jerusalem was 18 months. Stuck in a city for 18 months. Zedekiah tried to escape and was caught, God said he would be. His sons and nobles were killed - based on his decision not to surrender (God offered to protect him Jer 38:17), and then he was blinded (because he could not see?). The royal palace, the Temple, the homes, the walls were leveled- totally destroyed. The people were rounded up and taken off to exile. The homeless - those who had nothing (I guess before the city was burned) he left. These were the people who knew how to survive and didn't surrender when their house was burned. This destruction of Jerusalem is also told in Jer 52, II Kings 25, and II Chronicles 36.

Jeremiah is protected, somehow Nebuchadnezzar made provisions for him, and now he got the choice to go to Babylon or stay. He was put in the care of Gedaliah son of Ahikam. Ahikam was the man that stood up for Jeremiah at his trial - when they wanted to kill him for his message (Jer 26:24), and the fact that one man stood up prevented his death. Jeremiah decided to remain in Judah.

Before the fall- Jeremiah imprisoned, Zedekiah free. God acted- Jeremiah free Zedekiah a prisoner. Jeremiah saved by his faithfulness (all those years), Zedekiah destroyed through fear. Jeremiah had concern for the people and got respect, Zedekiah was concerned for himself and got contempt.

Ebed-Melek the Ethiopian that petitioned the king that it wasn't right when Jeremiah was put in the well, was protected during the siege and overthrow (Jer 38:8). He would see it but be protected- he would walk out of the city safe.

So two reminders of those that stood up for God's messenger that were taken care of- either directly or their family.

Chapter 40
The Babylonians knew Jeremiah had been a prisoner, he had predicted their victory, so they set him free. The even acknowledged God as being the author of their victory. Jeremiah was given the option of going to Babylon or staying in Judah- the choice was his. In Babylon the exiles would have hated him, he would have been a constant reminder that they should have listened to him, and it would have given credence to the charge that Jeremiah was a traitor. He chose instead to stay with those left in Judah. It showed he wasn't a traitor and he knew from his message God may not have been done dealing with those left yet.
So Jeremiah went to Gedaliah the son of Ahikam that stood up for him Jer 26:24.

Gedaliah accepted everyone, and encouraged them to live in peace and go about the daily task of making a living off the land. He would intercede for them as needed with the Babylonians. People out in the countryside hiding came out and he accepted them as well.

Gedaliah gets warned that someone is out to kill him. The warning doesn't come from Jeremiah (maybe God wanted this to happen). The follow up is an offer to kill the would be assassin "no one (man) would know"- but God would.

Did Gedaliah do the right thing? Killing the assassin and hiding it from other's knowledge would have preserved his "now life" but risked his infinity "eternal life". Instead he risked death now and as it turns out would be killed.

He also refused to listen and accused the informer of spreading a false rumor. Is somebody a criminal before they act? If you talk about it, and it is your intention -then you probably are, but is that reason enough to perform a criminal act though to prevent it?

Chapter 41
As was foretold by Johanan to Gedaliah (Jer 40) came to pass. Ishmael a son of Nethaniah came to Mizpah and killed Gedaliah. He and his men ambushed them while eating. Ishmael was of royal blood, but why would he do such a thing? Clearly the Babylonians were in control, and Gedaliah was trying to establish peaceable lives. Maybe he saw him as a representative of the Babylonians and struck back for that reason.

The next day pilgrims to Jerusalem come along. Shaved heads, ripped clothing and gashes on their bodies indicate the distraught nature of someone making a pilgrimage to the Temple in Jerusalem only to find it burned and destroyed (Jer 39). They too are murdered (all but 10) by Ishmael and his men. So now he has struck against God's people as well. He dumped their bodies on top of Gedaliah's and his men to hide them, and conceal his deeds.

He then takes the people of Mizpah and heads for Ammon. Johanan (who warned Gedaliah originally) pursues him and gets the hostages back but Ishmael escapes. Johanan and the people fear retribution from the Babylonians and decide to head for Egypt. Stopping near Bethlehem.

Chapter 42
Johanan and the people feared Babylonian wrath for the murder of Gedaliah - which they weren't responsible for. God knew, but man did not (at least not the Babylonians).

They came to Jeremiah to ask God's advice and guidance for them, and Jeremiah said he would. This sounds like a great first step in solving a dilemma. Then they swear to do whatever God tells them to do through Jeremiah- another good thing to do. its as it should be. What would be our comfort level in doing that? Their words were right but their actions are like ours. Wouldn't we probably want to wait for the message, and then decide?

They waited 10 days for the answer to their question. How many days are we willing to wait? Our culture wants answers "now".

The message "don't fear Babylon"- Man (which they did, and why they came to Jeremiah). God is on their side (He is on everyone's side that will listen to Him, and He longs to bring those that won't listen to Himself). God will make the king of Babylon show them mercy.

Jeremiah continues, showing that God is knowledgeable of their thought processes. Don't refuse to obey God by seeking what looks better, easier, more pleasing. Deciding your own way will cause your fears to catch up to you. Going to Egypt will result in being exposed to war, famine and death.

God was very plain- don't go to Egypt. They swore they would listen to His message and yet when it was received did not. They decide to go to the "wonderful country" and they will die there. The remnant still does not listen to God. They still won't obey. So innocent people run from feared punishment, thus making themselves appear guilty.

Chapter 43
Jeremiah relayed God's message to them. God told them what they were thinking so how could Jeremiah know this? They called Jeremiah's message from God a lie and that Jeremiah was a liar. One theory is they had a plan and wanted God's confirmation. In not confirming it, and wanting to really do their own thing, they had no choice but to deny the message Jeremiah gave. They truly weren't interested in listening to God unless He agreed with their plan. They didn't compare Jeremiah's previous messages against history. Baruch is given credit for influencing Jeremiah's message and somehow setting a trap for them.

So they gather all the refugees, including Baruch and Jeremiah, and go to Egypt to Tahpanhes. If you didn't like their messages, and thought they were against you, why would you take them to Egypt? They listened to their fear, but also heard truth. They acted out of fear, but didn't want to lose the truth. Maybe it was clear to them that God had protected Jeremiah all these years, so if he was with them there was protection- Jeremiah's presence didn't protect Gedaliah - which was why they were running?

At Tahpanhes Jeremiah is given a message to bury some stones and proclaim the Nebuchadnezzar would come and set up his throne on those stones. The message Jeremiah gave them in Judah would be true. War, famine and death would come to Egypt. Historically there is evidence this happened.

Chapter 44
Well Jeremiah ended up in Egypt with the rest of those left from Judah. They had gone there to escape hardship even though God warned them they would experience it if they went. Approximately 12 years before Nebuchadnezzar conquers Egypt, Jeremiah give this message to those Judeans in Egypt, and probably several times after God brought it to their minds- longing for them to choose Him.

God reminded them that the destruction they saw in Jerusalem was the result of their disobedience. They worshiped gods that weren't gods, and they were warned by the true God. Who unleashed destruction and that is why they are in Egypt. This is a recent past history lesson.

Now God turns to their current actions, they didn't listen to God's advice to stay in Judah, and they are continuing the same behaviors that caused judgment to come to Judah. God asks if they have forgotten, and states that there is no remorse. Nobody is listening to God.

So here is God's decree- if you won't turn and repent, listen to Me, and have no other gods before Me then this is what will happen. They will die in Egypt of war or famine. Only a few fugitives will make it back.

The people's response to Jeremiah's message - we're not listening, we're going to do what we think is right. It seems to us it should work, and we're going to ignore or find something else to blame for the times it did not. We have our own explanation as to why Jerusalem was destroyed and it was not because of God. Seems like a combination of not realizing how big God is (ignorance? or denial?) If you deny God, you can talk yourself into some degree of control in your own life- of course it is a lie. When things go awry you just tell yourself another lie- you get more used to it as you do it. Ignorance? or denial?

Jeremiah answered and told them that they broke the covenant. God had kept up His end of the covenant for generations even though He was not being revered or respected. He finally had enough.

God said "keep your vows to the other gods", in rejecting the true God, they will seal their destruction as well. They will become targets of doom. God will bring this doom to them by giving Pharaoh over to his enemy (Nebuchadnezzar) just like God gave Zedekiah over. This message is given 12 years before it happened, not while it was happening and at a time when Egypt looked like a "wonderful country".

August 30, 2009 Jeremiah 34-38

2009-08-30T18:05:00.001-07:00

There were 5 people for Wordlisteners tonight, and they for the most
part listened to the reading. There were some wonderful insights
though. We read and discussed 5 chapters, my notes are below. It was so
wonderful to be in God's word, and we read the section where God
authorizes Jeremiah to record His words- giving us the book of Jeremiah
these many years later.

Our next meeting will be September 27, 2009. Praise and worship is next
week and lay speaker training will be the following two weeks after
that.

Chapter 34
God's message to Jeremiah when Nebuchadnezzar was mounting an all out attack against Jerusalem. God tells the Israelites- His chosen, the outcome of the current activities and events. Jerusalem will fall, it will be burned and the king won't escape. Its easy to let our fears and "experience" tell us the outcomes of current activities and events in our lives, but shouldn't we be asking God?

The king (Zedekiah) is re-assured he won't be killed, but rather cared for until death. This message came when only two fortified cities and Jerusalem remained. Would a skeptic not claim that the outcome was obvious at that point? Why then did God give this message? Why did they need the message? I can only figure that it ties in with the Assyrian invasion years earlier. The people thought the end had come but God intervened- slaying that army. They had seen it and had memory of it. Seeing God act (miraculously and repeatedly) is not enough to turn people from their sin in repentance and toward God. Example Red sea. Our selfishness and our wants are put first, and we are so ready to ignore and deny God. We may acknowledge God acted in the past, but we want Him to do something for us today.

Another message is mentioned, a special one for Zedekiah. Zedekiah freed the slaves in Jerusalem that were Hebrews. The covenant said that one Jew couldn't own another as a slave. In Leviticus God stated that owning a fellow Jew as a slave was not permitted. He freed them from being slaves when He delivered them from Egypt. They were to be treated as hired men and freed at the year of Jubilee. This covenant to free the slaves by Zedekiah was reneged on. God's message reminded them of His intentions , and stated that they had totally ignored God's desire. He then states Zedekiah had done well to obey, but then broke it which made a mockery of God.

God's message is pretty plain and He is consistent in informing as to what He wants, and when we act like "we know better" we are mocking God. Here comes the consequences- God is going to set the people of the city free -to be killed. To become a horror. There was a covenant ceremony- gone back on. One has got to be careful of making covenants, and making promises, it is so very important to consider the cost- God wants us to honor our word, even if it costs us. Or not even make a vow if we aren't going to fulfill it. Deut 23:21-23, Psalm 15:5.

Chapter 35
Now we go back in time chronologically to see an example of what it looks like to keep a vow or covenant. The Recabite community are invited, and Jeremiah is told to offer them wine- God tells Jeremiah to offer them wine. The Recabites entire community comes, but they don't drink wine, so they refused to take it.

Then we find out that their ancestor commanded them not to drink wine, nor settle down in houses. So these people live in tents, don't own property, don't garden, and don't drink. They furthermore have followed this ancestral command.

When Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar came along they went to Jerusalem to live seeking safety. God wants to show His people in Jerusalem their ways. The Recabites followed their ancestor's command, but God's people wouldn't even pay Him any attention. He tried over and over to get their attention, sending prophets, wanting them to follow His ways so He could bless them but they wouldn't listen.

So destruction is coming to His people in Jerusalem because of their stubbornness. Meanwhile the faithfulness of the Recabites will be rewarded in that one of them will always be in God's service.

I think sometimes we are inclined to do something we shouldn't because "everyone else is". We then get caught up in "if they can get away with it I should be able to also". When honestly looked at, it is probably never the case that "all are doing it", There is an example somewhere, if we just honestly open our eyes to look for it.

Chapter 36
Jeremiah gets a message from God telling him to write down all that he had told him. Here is the divine authorization recorded for us by God to write this book. If God told him to write it, doesn't it make sense that God would bring the things back to Jeremiah's mind as he wrote that were important? In recording the message, it can be taken in all at once, and maybe the people of Judah will turn from their bad lives. Up until it was written there was only a message from Jeremiah on occasion, but never a comprehensive record. The concepts of God need to be heard repeatedly (or read) to be learned, hearing them once - considering all the opposing views we get bombarded with may not be enough.

This also gets Baruch involved, he is a scribe. Jeremiah dictated, Baruch recorded, God led. Or better yet God led, Jeremiah dictated, and Baruch wrote.

We get another hint as to why the written word was authorized, Jeremiah was banned from the temple, so he could not go in. Baruch however could go in and read the words he had written. A man of God, Jeremiah, not allowed in the house of God. Its a pretty good indicator when people have rejected God to the point His own messenger isn't even allowed to speak in His house. I don't know the details of the "hate crimes bill", but it seems we may be on the verge of something similar in our time. Jeremiah instructed Baruch as to when to go (day of fasting) so that the most people would hear the message. The hope was that the message would bring about prayer. Baruch did as he was asked.

A government leader was there and heard the message and was alarmed (as pointed out to me). Evidently they hadn't paid much if any attention to Jeremiah's verbal messages up to this point, but could read hear the message read to them now and see the truth of it- as it happened. This prompted a government meeting of the kings advisors. Baruch was sent for and asked to read the scroll to them, and he was asked about the source and said that Jeremiah had dictated it. He was told to hide, but they kept the scroll. It was then taken to the king (Jehoiakim) and read to him. As the scroll was read the king would cut it off and burn it in the fire. The entire scroll was read, and consequently burned without the slightest twinge of conscience. Scripture can be the very vehicle that God uses to speak to us. Others can read/hear the scripture and it have absolutely no effect them. In modern times the Bible has never been more accessible, and the need for God's truth has never been so great, it just doesn't seem to affect some folks. Some of the kings advisors evidently had conscience, they advised him not to burn the scroll, but he ignored them. The king wanted Jeremiah and Baruch arrested but God had hidden them away.

Jeremiah was told by God that the scroll was burned and needed to be replaced. God sees to it His word is protected and He has done that for us- praise God we can read his word today. So it is re-written. A message also goes to Jehoiakim- no descendant will be on the throne of David (and Jehoiakim is not in the lineage of Jesus recorded in Matthew). Jehoiachin his son is, but he was the king taken into exile (when the throne of David was lost) and replaced. This exile happened when the temple treasures were taken. Zedekiah was appointed king. The scroll was re-written- we have it today.

Chapter 37
The puppet king Zedekiah- placed by Nebuchadnezzar, his officials, or the people left in Jerusalem paid no attention to the message of God given by Jeremiah- officially. King Zedekiah did seem to realize Jeremiah's position, and did send to him a request for prayer. We're back to a time when Jeremiah was not imprisoned.

Zedekiah had rebelled against Babylon, and the Babylonians (Chaldeans) had come back to fight against him. This would explain his prayer request. Egypt's army was marching to "help" him in the fight, he hoped. The same thing happened in Isaiah's time when the Assyrians threatened, the king hoped for Egyptian help. God's message back- the Egyptians will turn around and the Babylonians will come back, and the city will be destroyed (burned to the ground). It was God's will Jerusalem would be destroyed- so it would happen.

During the time the Chaldeans pulled back from Jerusalem (because they heard the Egyptians were coming), Jeremiah left Jerusalem to take care of some personal business in Benjamin (seems like this fits his field purchase). He was called a deserter. All those years of preaching to a people who didn't listen to him, and yet he was loyal to them.

Jeremiah was beaten for his alleged desertion, and placed in a cistern turned into an underground prison cell. There he stayed until called by king Zedekiah.

The king wanted to know if Jeremiah had a message from God, which he repeated the one he had stated earlier- it had not changed. The king would be turned over to the king of Babylon. Jeremiah then asked the king what crime he had committed, and reminded the king through questioning that the "friends" or prophets the king had been listening to were in error. Babylon had attacked even though they said they would not. He then requested not to be sent back to the dungeon, and the king relented by sending him to the courtyard of the palace guards where he got a loaf of bread a day until the bread in the city ran out.

Chapter 38
The siege of Jerusalem is occurring, the last one before it fell. Jeremiah's message (from God) -surrender to the Babylonians and live, or stay in the town and die. Jerusalem is going to fall.

This message obviously hurt the morale of those defending Jerusalem, and Jeremiah was accused of not putting the interests of the people first. God's sure word wasn't what they wanted to hear even in desperate times, and they proclaimed that word as not being in their best interest. This is an opposition to God. His sure Word is always in our best interest, but there are circumstances (like this one) that may cause us to question.

Since he wasn't saying what they wanted to hear, some of the kings officials decided Jeremiah should be killed, and the king went along with their desire (was he weak?). They took him and threw him in the well (cistern) in the courtyard. There was only mud at the bottom. Somebody stood up for Jeremiah again before the king. He was prevented from being killed earlier because someone stood up for him, and now it happens again- God is protecting Jeremiah, but not in the method we would necessarily want. An Ethiopian goes to the king and says it isn't right. He doesn't have the Jewish perspective on the situation but rather is looking at it in terms of right and wrong. The king agrees to allow Jeremiah to be rescued, and he is returned to the courtyard. We hear there is no bread in the city, so it is very close to the end.

Later the king calls for Jeremiah and tells him to "hold nothing back". Jeremiah is skeptical of the king, that he means it, and gets the king to swear he won't kill Jeremiah. Up to this point Jeremiah had been saying Jerusalem would be destroyed, but he tells the king that if he will surrender to the Babylonians - the king will be spared, his family will be spared, and the city will be spared. If the king had realized who God is (had any idea) then these reasons are a very compelling reason to surrender. Instead Zedekiah is worried about men- those that already surrendered. Jeremiah tells him God would even protect him from them. Again Zedekiah's vision of God, who He is and what He can do is limited - obviously. Jeremiah informs Zedekiah that non-surrender will result in the city being burned, him not escaping, and his family having to go through hardship. His wives will be given to the officers of Babylon. Jeremiah also reminds him that his so called "friends" had given him bad advice. They told him what he wanted to hear, and not the truth. People in power often get surrounded by such people. Leaders want people around them to say things are going well, and the people around him feared repercussions for bad reports, so they held their tongue. Even after Jeremiah had said the city would be destroyed , God offered to spare it if Zedekiah surrendered. God holds out hope to the very last.

Sadly Zedekiah feared his own officials more than he feared God. He knew they would check up on him, so he coached Jeremiah what to say when they asked, and sure enough they did. Zedekiah sounds like a puppet king, or maybe he didn't really hold the authority, or maybe he felt he owed somebody something and therefore would not act on God's choice. It seems this is a very sad choice, and not very prevalent. However if we have any beliefs, or hold anything in a higher regard than God, then we too are just as likely not follow God's leadings. Thats why we are to put nothing before the Lord. Maybe his idol was his position, and surrender would mean giving it up. So rather than pin his hopes on God's sure (and proven message) he held out hope that the advisors around him (who had been wrong so far) would be right.

Zedekiah made a bad decision, and we can only speculate as to why. We must be careful we don't become as blind to the truth as he did and make bad decisions ourselves.
Maybe as was suggested by a group member he was jealous that God spoke to Jeremiah, but not to him the king. Pride is not good.

Sunday August 23, 2009 Jeremiah 32-33

2009-08-23T19:02:00.001-07:00

We had 6 tonight for Wordlisteners, and lively discussions to go with
scripture reading. The Lord blessed. I personally wanted to catch up
on the guest leader last week, who was very well received. We agreed
there was a cyclical pattern to historical events, and that some of the
prophets messages for that time were not fulfilled completely - yet.

Also for the sake of continuity I was asked to post the notes I had made
for Ch 30 and 31.

Chapter 30
God told Jeremiah to write everything He told him in a book. God made sure His message for us is correct, and then He guarded it as needed until it came to us. Something only God could do, and something He has done.

Dark days are ahead for Israel but the Lord will bring them back, and set up a David-King for them. This has not been fully fulfilled - yes they were brought back, but had no king. Yes Jesus came but not as King. It also says those that come back will serve God (some did, others ... well). It also says the godless nations that the Jews were scattered to will be finished off. Has this even happened?

Israel was burned out (destroyed), others had decided based on God's judgments that He had given up on them, the "fair weather" friends left, but God was only punishing Israel for their sin in a way they would never forget. God is still protecting them, Everyone that hurts Israel God will hurt. The enemies of Israel will become slaves to them, those that plundered punished Israel will themselves be plundered. God will come with healing, and cure the incurable. God will rebuild the homes (Jesus went to prepare a place), God will save them- He will take pride in their community, their leader will have access to God, we'll be His people, and He will be our God.

Chapter 31
When God saves Israel it will be as plain as the sun at high noon. It won't have to be interpreted, it won't be 50% +1. God will be the God of everyone. Israel looked for rest and found God looking for them. Need rest? Seek God more.

Israel will start over God-centered - what a joy.

God saves the core of Israel then there is verse 8 - His people come back. Gathering of the Jews from all the nations will happen after the nation is established and revival has broken out. We see a glimpse of this, but not the real intent and action. Blind, lame, limping, pregnant, - all gathered (this is part of the fallen world or in our time). All gathered also means those that need help getting there, and not necessarily the affluent. This is more than a decision by people who have means. In Isaiah 60 it is said the nations will bring them back to Israel.

God will care for them- He will take their hands and lead them.
God will bless them.

Rachel weeping- God's message (a continuation?, before?, after?). Israel sent to exile. I'm guessing its before, maybe its a repeating cycle. Israel to exile to collect the wages of their grief work (note- not exiled for doing God's work but rather following their own desires). God will bring them home eventually.

People are like wild horses- sometimes God has to break us, or allow us to break ourselves, in order for us to get to the point He can use us. Once we are obedient to Him we are then useful for His work.

We run loose do our own thing - hit hardship decide to repent (and mean it- very important that it isn't lip service).
God then trains us, some taking longer than others.
He brings us to a point of usefulness for His purposes.

While all the above is happening, God waits for us and longs for relationship with us.

More rest - coming to God brings about "rest". I often say that "I'm tired" (without thought and from habit) - I should be seeking the one who can refresh.

Rest- a pleasant and satisfying sleep.

People and animals planted again in Israel- He will stick with them this time. He will make a new covenant - write His laws on their hearts. They will be His people, He will be their God (church? saved Israel?)- Not happened yet.

No schools about God (seminaries), they will know Him 1st hand. Clean slates no sin (forgiven, and forgotten). Israel will be a nation before Him as long as there is a cosmos. God's city will be rebuilt - never to be torn down again.

Chapter 32
Babylon had Jerusalem under siege. Jeremiah was locked up for proclaiming God's message. The same would happen to the apostles and to Paul, why shouldn't it happen to us? Jeremiah's message was that the city would fall (which was God's message) the king didn't like the message so he had Jeremiah imprisoned. When you can't refute God's message (and who can) the only recourse is to persecute the messenger and try to prevent it from getting out. Jeremiah said resistance to Babylon was futile.

Right in the middle of this situation Jeremiah's Uncle is coming to see him. The Lord instructs Jeremiah to purchase a field. Even in the midst of impending doom, God is on the other side. We often become too focused on the immediate rather than the beyond. All the details of the transaction is included. A normal life will eventually return to Jerusalem, and affirmation of the fact that God is in control- something else we often "forget".

Judah is being punished for sins started by the parents (32:16-19). Now God also reached out to their children, but they made the choice to continue in their parent's sin. Its easiest for children to repeat the behavior of their parents, its so ingrained, so exposed, it seems so right. This makes it very difficult to break the negative behaviors passed on from one generation to another. All things are possible however for those in Christ.

God had established Israel miraculously and they turned their backs to Him (God). As a result bad times are at hand, but God is merciful, and a future exists beyond the bad times.

Babylon will take Jerusalem, every roof that was used for an alter to another God will be torn down. Its interesting that God's nature is that he is so ready to forgive and then forget the sins we repent of. Those we don't repent of He has meticulous records. After years of giving them the opportunity to repent while His message was proclaimed through Jeremiah (Isaiah really first), He has had enough. He is destroying the city to destroy the wicked lives. He is sovereign - He can. They turned away from God rather than sin- there are consequences.

The whole country became an act of sin. The destruction of the city would take place after the "best" had been taken away to Babylon. Example of rapture? Losing the best to Babylon didn't cause repentance, but rather a hardening. The country in crisis did not turn to God but rather to other gods and more fervently sought their answers from these idols.

A break to present times, if our financial crisis is so "bad" why isn't our Government calling on people to "pray" for the USA? Are we not repeating the very actions of Judah from so long ago?

After the crisis He will gather them, He will make them one mind, He will fill their hearts with such deep respect such that they won't turn away- in fact not even think it. I don't believe this has happened yet in History. He'll delight in doing good things for them.

After a glimpse of distant future - the now (or then) catastrophe is coming.

Prosperity and restoration long term.

Chapter 33
Jerusalem is about to be over run by Babylon, Jeremiah is still in jail- another example that following God can bring about difficulty or hardship from a wordly standpoint. God sends him a message saying call to me and I will answer you. A servant of God in jail for serving God, and God is going to tell him things. Often we are too short sighted, and currently in Jerusalem there was destruction and killing and the ravages of war. God is telling Jeremiah of His plans for later, the present situation is based on the evil actions of the people that God had tried to warn (for generations).

The future is that God has plans for renovation, along with the restoration of every lost thing. God will restore, He will build, He will cleanse the people, He'll forgive, and the world will be in awe. This hasn't happened yet. Parts of it are available and in place, but it isn't complete. The world is not in awe of what God has done, Jesus did go to prepare a place.

What we see as unlivable, empty and desolate, God sees differently. We often give up on things and people long before God does, He is truly long suffering. The desolation will become pasture for shepherds.

The time is coming when God will keep His promise to the families of Israel and Judah. The David King (Jesus) will come and He will run the country honestly and fairly (in a leadership position). He will set things right. When that happens Jerusalem and Judah will be secure, they have always been threatened, and remain so to this day. Yet God will set things right. He allowed man's decision (Adam and Eve) to make His perfect creation a fallen world, He is the only one who can restore it. Only by living in a fallen world could we see (and everybody have that opportunity) of our need for Him.

God's covenant with David is the same as the covenant creating night and day in terms of importance. One can't fail unless the other does. His covenant with the "Levitical Priests" may mean us, because we Christians serve Him and our priests- I've seen the scripture, Exodus 19:6 originally for those who kept the covenant, but Christians are later grafted in (wild vine into the tame one).

Why hasn't it happened yet? This completeness, is it ever going to happen? Is it a real occurrence in this world, or is it for the one after? The covenants are referred to again, God has not forgotten, even when things look bleak, He will restore. Just like it took him six days to create the earth, He may take 6 days to work with man bringing him back to the point where what He had originally envisioned for the earth and a relationship with man will happen. But it will.

I like the last word - He will have mercy (as opposed I'm guessing to judgment).

August 16, Jeremiah 30 and 31

2009-08-21T16:30:00.000-07:00

Word Listeners met on Sunday, August 16 to study Jeremiah 30 and 31. There was a guest leader Mark Conforti, who is also our pastor. Many thanks to him for filling in.

Here are his notes.

Mark Conforti began the session talking about biblical prophetic writings. The prophets spoke a particular word to a particular people at a particular time. Rarely did they attempt to predict a future event. Rather, their words served as warnings, similarly to a parent warning a child of his/her actions. We live with the consequences of our actions (although, God occasionally delivers us from our mistakes). And so the prophets' way of speaking was: "If you do ____, then ____ will happen to you." There was always a future implication in the prophets' words; this is subtly different than the prophets predicting future events (eg the invasion of Poland or world wars thousands of years later).

Jeremiah and Ezekiel were two prophets serving during the time of Jerusalem's demise (587 BC) at the hands of the Babylonians. While the events around Israel's fleeing of Egypt remain the centerpiece of the Old Testament, there's no denying that much of the Old Testament is written in light of Jerusalem's downfall.

Chapter 30 deals with the promised restoration of Israel and Judah, the two kingdoms once united together. In verse 7, the name "Jacob" is used interchangeably with "Israel." This is commonplace in the Old Testament. (Later, the term "Ephraim" is used affectionately for the people of Israel as a whole.) Eric suggested that verse 7 was a reference to a millenial reign.
Throughout chapter 30, the Lord asks the people why they mourn in light of the Lord's promise of redemption.

Chapter 31 celebrates the return of the exiles. This is likely a reference to King Cyrus of Persia and his edict that allowed for Jews to return to Jerusalem. Verses 31-34 famously point to Jesus Christ, the one in whom God established a new covenant. These verses are frequently read during Advent the season of preparation for Christ's coming into the world.

Aug. 9, 2009 - Jeremiah 25-29

2009-08-09T17:49:00.000-07:00

We had 7 for Wordlisteners and some new faces. We covered Chapter 25-29 and had a lively discussion. Chapter 29 is one of those that shows an example of how much God loves us.

Chapter 25
This chapter starts out with a very specific date reference message during reign of Jehoiakim. Jeremiah is asked by God to speak to the people (again). He reminds them that he has been speaking to them for 23 years and they haven't listened yet, seemingly not to one word.

Its not been just a refusal to listen to Jeremiah, but God has sent a steady stream of prophets that have been ignored by the people. They said turn back (repent) and live in the land God promised them, but they would not. They chose to follow the god fads of the day, which made God angry.

He is sending for Nebuchadnezzar His servant and he will destroy everything. A horror to top all the horrors in history. Judah will serve Babylon 70 years, and then God will punish Babylon- making it a wasteland.

The nations will drink the wine of God's wrath, becoming drunk and staggering. All the kingdoms on earth are included with Babylon being last. The invasion of Judah by Babylon seems to be a glimpse of end times. Israel is slated for massacre, the catastrophe will start in Jerusalem- its the sword and nothing but.

God roars from heaven and everyone everywhere hears it, God makes His case against godless nations and is going to put the human race on trial, with death to the guilty.

Prepare for doomsday, disaster is spreading from nation to nation, a huge storm is about to rage all across planet earth. Those killed by God's judgment will stretch from one end of the earth to the other (22.8 million 5'8” people laid end to end to go around the earth- following land masses and shortest distances across oceans would mean more). They will not be buried.

Shepherds and leaders will wail- there will be no escape. God will come out in the open.

Chapter 26
This chapter starts out with God telling Jeremiah to preach yet again to the people. Jehoiakim- same king as Chapter 25 and maybe earlier. Say everything God tells him, hold nothing back. “just maybe they will listen and turn back (repent) from their bad lives. What a heart God has for us. He wants us to turn to Him, He calls us. He wants to reconsider the disasters that our evil behavior brings about. He wanted Moses to talk Him out of destroying Israel. He does want what is best for us, and sometimes that is to let us flounder in our own way.

Even though up to this point they have never listened and there is no rational belief that they will begin now- the offer is still there. Otherwise a promise of destruction is given. What happened – they wanted to kill the messenger, they had made the Temple their idol and God's promise to destroy it if they did not listen was not well accepted.

A trial was held, Jeremiah was accused of preaching against the city. Actually they were putting God on trial because He wasn't willing to give up His sovereignty to them. Jeremiah responded that his message of temple destruction was based on their actions, and therefore they were in control of their own destiny. God had called them- what was their response? He then said he was at their mercy, but it was God that spoke through him. They acquitted Jeremiah, they recognized that he spoke with the authority of God.

Then they reviewed the history, a similar thing had taken place under king Hezekiah. Micah of Moresheth preached and Hezekiah heeded it. They listened to Micah's message, heeded it, and the Lord changed His mind about the disaster He was planning. Seems God gives new leaders a chance to heed His message,

Another prophet Uriah had preached the way Jeremiah did, was threatened and fled to Egypt. The king in Jerusalem had him captured and returned where he was killed and his body dumped. Nobody stood up for him.

In Jeremiah's case one man Ahikam stood up with Jeremiah. What a difference when one man stands up. When nobody is willing to agree with the prophet of God, the prophet is killed (murdered may be a better term). When one man agrees murder is prevented. It does not mean they heeded the message. Jeremiah had asked for protection, God had promised it to him, and He only needed one man to prevent a lynching. Later all Jesus disciples would abandon Him too during and after trial.

Chapter 27
Another visual, make a yoke. Then send messages to surrounding kingdoms. Isn't it neat that God gets His message spread. The one who made earth, man and woman, all the animals, and did it on His own without asking, and He gives it whichever created being He chooses. In this case it is Nebudchadnezzar's turn, for a while anyway. Either submit to Babylon or take on a yoke that will bring about war starvation and disease until they do submit. Interesting – not submitting to authority is a result of pride, and God allows war, starvation and disease to make us submit to His will. How does this fit in with follow leaders as they follow God? Only in submitting to Babylon will nations keep their sovereignty. Now the advisors in these nations are foretelling the “future” and saying to resist Babylon. All their advice is lies, only God's is trustworthy.

His message is also for Judah – serve Babylon or suffer. His advisors are telling him wrong. Then he goes to the priests and the people at large with the same message. Some temple treasures had been taken to Babylon already. Since the king is Zedekiah – the best of Jerusalem along with some of the temple treasures had already been taken to Babylon (this would include Daniel). The audience of this message is the “bad figs” of chapter 24. God is giving them a chance to repent, to obey His voice after saying in Ch 24 they would be destroyed- what a mercy offer. Zedekiah is promised a long life if he submits to Babylonian authority. He wants to change His plans, He wants relationship. The treasures left in the Temple will stay- if they submit- even though He had previously said the rest would go and the city would be destroyed. He will eventually see that the treasures come back when God makes it happen.

Chapter 28
Hannaniah a prophet from Gibeon confronted Jeremiah in the Temple and stated his message was from God. The Temple furnishings will come back, the exiles will return within 2 years. Right prophecy wrong time frame. Jeremiah said it would be wonderful if it were true, he said prophets from old spoke of war, judgments, plagues and disasters in general so a prophecy of good news – everything is well should be suspected. Time will tell- if it happens we'll know its from God, if not then it isn't.

Jeremiah was calm, Hannaniah was emotional and passionate. He smashed Jeremiah's yoke and repeated his prophecy. Jeremiah quietly left. We have to be careful with passion, just because we want something very strongly or very badly as Hannaniah did doesn't mean it will happen, it has to agree with God's will.

Later AFTER Jeremiah got a message from God concerning Hannaniah's actions he went to him and told him what God had said. The wooden yoke was broken, and the iron yoke replaced it. The nations would be at the whim and will of Nebuchadnezzar. Hannaniah's “prophecy” since it was more desirable than what Jeremiah had given them (submit), maybe led them to choose badly. Hannaniah talked the country into believing a pack of lies- so God sent him to his death. Not suddenly- he gave him time to say goodbye.

Chapter 29
This chapter shares the letter sent to the exiles- the first group. This was the bulk of the exiles taken to Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar's first trip). The letter said live life, build houses, marry and have kids, work for the country's welfare, Pray for the country's well being. We're in exile from God's kingdom of sorts so it is an outline of how we're supposed to live. It is also confirmation of what God said- in this case that Jerusalem would fall to Babylon. God will tarry a while before bringing the exiles back, like He tarries prior to bringing us home.

This is somewhat in contrast to the message earlier in Jeremiah where He tells Jeremiah not to marry or have kids- Jeremiah is in Jerusalem, these exiles are in Babylon. Furthermore he tells Jeremiah not to pray for this people. God's judgment is imminent in this case. Another indicator that when God acts, people know about it.

God says 70 years in Babylon - then He will take them home. God has plans for His people, plans for a future. Wait through 70 years of exile and then plans to give them the future they hope for. Some will die in exile, the future they hoped for was not realized fully after the exile- how do we understand God in that? Obviously the reward He is promising isn't necessarily in this life.

When we seek Him we WILL find Him- He does want us to be serious about it. He'll turn things around - after we're serious with Him and only then. It will not be as a result of any of our own efforts acting without Him .

Those that were missing home (Jerusalem in this case) - hard times are coming for Jerusalem. They will hear news that God is sending catastrophe - evidence His word is true. Hard times will come to Jerusalem because they didn't listen to God.

Now the story of Shemaiah - he said "God set him up as priest" - didn't we discuss a few chapters back the dangers of saying God told me this? Well here is an example. God can make His desires known without using people. In other words if Shemaiah was in fact God's chosen for priest, someone other than Shemaiah would know. "God said" does still apply to the reading of the scripture- however even a scripture passage can mean different things to different people as God shows Himself through them.

Shemaiah tried to take authority that God did not grant to him, and he was called on it. He claimed he had locked up prophets, but he hadn't done anything about Jeremiah - still proclaiming God's message. This lie Shemaiah told exposed him as not being sent by God. Shemaiah and his family were punished over his actions. It is important to note that families are definitely affected by the actions of a family member. It was true then and is today. It seems God picks those He chooses for positions, rather or not they ever get any recognition.

7/19/2009 Jeremiah 21-24

2009-07-19T17:07:00.000-07:00

We had 6 for Wordlisteners tonight, it was after another meeting for one of our members. It has been three weeks because last week we had a Pastor welcoming dinner for the new Pastor we have been blessed with. I didn't know it at the time of that post.

God is so good, and these chapters stress God's goodness, and His desire for us to know Him individually.

I think next week VBS will keep us from meeting. The week after will be Praise and Worship service, so it will be another three weeks.

Chapter 21
The siege begins in Jerusalem. One of the chapters from Jeremiah's last days. Not sure why its here other than Pashur who put him in stocks is sent to him by the king. The siege has begun, there are actual events taking place- predicted by Jeremiah. Even though they didn't acknowledge his messages from God, they heard them, because they knew who to go to when things starting getting bad. Jerusalem was under attack. It was too late, they still wanted relief from their problems rather than to be submitted to God. So God was going to fight against Israel with the Babylonians. The morale was going to go down, and the king would be delivered to his enemy. Nebuchadnezzar will kill people ruthlessly- sounds bad, unfair. God was angry and He decided to destroy the city.

He is God, so when He destroys a city He can ensure fairness (from an eternity standpoint). When we as people destroy and hurt- it is out of selfishness, and for what we think is our gain. Big difference. We are not God, and when we think about how He lets "bad things happen" we are firstly elevating ourselves through pride to the place of God, and furthermore forgetting two things. Bad things happen due to our disobedience to God and the presence of sin in our lives, and that God sees things from an eternity standpoint. We only see what we believe to be an injustice from our limited viewpoint. God knows hearts, we don't (period- though we think we do- we still don't, to do so calls God a liar).

Even in the midst of impending doom, God gives those focused on their life in this world a choice to avoid death. Will they listen? will they act? Their history indicates a "no". He instructs them through Jeremiah to surrender, and doesn't sugarcoat it either- He plainly states they will lose everything but their life. In staying they will be killed- their choice. Lose everything (worldly possessions in this life) and live or die. In the new testament it says those that wish to save their life will lose it, and those that lose their life for His sake will find it (Luke 9:24). I see a parallel.
The king of Babylon will burn Jerusalem to the ground- God said it- it happened.

Message to the rulers- deal with justice- deal fairly. Rescue those exploited. This prevents God's anger. An anger once started can not be put out. Looks like they had not listened to Him for long enough, they felt secure, but with God nobody is secure, and their party will be crashed.

Chapter 22
This chapter happened chronologically before 21 (this is the warning to Jehoiakim who preceded Zedekiah (warning of Chapter 21)). I think God allowed them to be arranged like this to show that His message was the same and repeated. Although ignored. The message- attend to justice, set things right between people, rescue those exploited, don't take advantage of homeless orphans and widows, stop murdering. If they obey - He will protect them, and kings will continue in Judah. If they don't then Judah will be rubble.

God ranked Judah and Jerusalem among His favorite places, and yet because of disobedience He is going to let become ruined. Because they walked away from Him.

Weep for exiled son - who will die in exile, never to see home again. Just like the warning- doom to those that build palaces but destroy lives, cheats workers, lives in extravagance. His father- treated people fairly, stuck up for down and out, Judah was protected - some evidence that God means what He says. Its also evidence of knowing God.

Blind and brainless- think of self, take advantage of weak, bully those they are in authority over. The king of Judah that did those things will get a donkey's funeral.

God states that the people of Jerusalem have made a total mess of their lives. He tried to speak to them when things were going well and they were not interested. When things go well we often soon turn from God. It takes crisis brought on by our sin to get us to turn to God. He will let their leaders be blown away, friends to exile, ending up in the gutter. God is giving the kings of these people over to judgment- exile and never seeing home again. The God who knows their hearts. God is the potter and Jehoiachin is a leaky bucket- rusted out. He's the last of the kings to sit on Judah's throne. David's line survived and went into exile. The people of Judah clung to God's promise that he would always have a king in Judah of the line of David (1 Kings 9:5 ) but forgot verse 6 making it conditional upon the obedience of the Israelites. I'm sure they "prayed" that scripture and stood on the promise, and remembered God's deliverance of Jerusalem from the Assyrians.

Chapter 23
Even though He is going to allow Jerusalem to be destroyed, His desire was to protect Jerusalem and Israel, so He has plans to renew it. But in Jeremiah in the present situation, the leaders of His people aren't listening to Him. That to me means it is important for His sheep to hear from Him directly. He will track the errant leaders actions, eventually having to gather His sheep Himself, He'll appoint leaders (Himself). Man will fail in taking care of God's people- He will have to do it. We'll fail because of our sinful natures and selfish attitudes. He wants us to be obedient to Him, losing self.

After the destruction of Israel God will establish a David branch Ruler- Jesus. He will make everything right, He will bring fairness- isn't that what we want? Jesus setting up His kingdom will be a greater event than the parting of the red sea. The statement bringing Israel back - certainly it was started with the re-establishment of the nation of Israel in 1948, but at this time God's people also includes the church, in Jesus reign we'll want to go to Israel. So could bringing Israel back include the Christians?

Now some teaching about those lying prophets- those that speak for God and advise people but don't truly have a relationship with God. What is the result of widespread lying prophets?

A country full of adulterers, faithless, promiscuous idolater adulterers. Are we there yet? We got there by listening and following people who don't listen to or follow God. We should also be checking with God for direction ourselves.

The land becomes a wasteland- unfaithfulness makes the land a cesspool.

Religious leaders that have nothing to do with God. Mud spatters His house (God allows it)- but He is in control. They will go to pitch black darkness.

In Samaria there were prophets preaching false doctrine. This messes with minds- causes confusion. These prophets were sex driven and not God driven. They subsidized wickedness (I think by not confronting it, those actions are sort of support), actions without thinking (not giving something a second thought) could also be supportive.

Hardships and death are coming.

Don't listen to the prophets that don't go to God, don't seek Him, don't listen for Him. They make it all up themselves, you would hear their thoughts and not God's- you have your own thoughts you don't need theirs. False prophets have a couple sermons:
The everything will turn out fine sermon, that they preach to congregations with no taste for God. Upon reflection – if the congregation has a taste for God things will turn out fine (eventually- but their will be trials)- fellowship with God is there. If a congregation doesn't have a taste for God – everything will not turn out fine, trials on this path too, and no fellowship with God.

Another one is the nothing bad will ever happen sermon- to those set in their ways. God protects those that are in fellowship with Him- not that they don't have trials, but He gives them grace to get through. If you are set in your ways, then you are not listening to God, nor are you obedient to Him, your pride has elevated itself and pushed God out, you have become ritualistic instead of following the Shepherd. As a matter of the way God organized the universe, if you are in this condition – you most definitely are in trouble.

Prophets need to listen to and live out His word. False prophets don't bother to listen, let alone live out. They will be surprised by God's hurricane, those that listen to God will see it coming, and provisions will be made by God for them. They may have to go through the storm, but they will know He is with them in it.

False prophets God never sent, people He never spoke to or called preaching. They couldn't be bothered by God (they don't have the “time”), and yet without God's guidance the wrong path is taken. Furthermore God is ever present and available He cannot be hidden from. So He is accessible to everyone, those that don't listen to Him have to choose and make a conscious effort to ignore Him.

False prophets (God non-seekers)– say they have dreams, and take the dreams as a sign. Their focus is their glory and not God's. They are wrapped up in self and how they appear - “man of God” or “woman of God” - and not “a sinner saved by grace”. They swap their stories, none of it involving God, and as a result they can be a distraction, distracting people from God.

Tell God's message faithfully- His message is like fire. He is tired of false prophets made up messages, but He is giving them a chance to- He wants that all should repent and come to Him. Prophets not faithful to God are of NO BENEFIT. Anyone who asks what God's position on a matter is, obviously hasn't sought His position, and that is a trouble sign.

Now as to God's positions, instead of claiming to “know” what God says it should be discussed- “how do we understand God in this?”. What is He saying to you on this matter? Instead of “He said this...” it should be more along the lines of “this is my understanding...”. God authorizes those that speak for Him, so we need to talk about our understanding, rather than proclaim God said it. He authorizes who speaks for Him in order to keep His message from being twisted. Our beliefs, thoughts and interpretations can twist His message if we promote them as coming from God when in fact they are just our interpretations.

Ask Him – seek Him, How did God answer? What did He say? How do we interpret it, or How do we understand God in this? Don't pretend you know all the answers, especially if He has given you some insight. Don't talk or act like you know it all.

God asks at the end of His message through Jeremiah if they are paying attention. He is about to act, those paying attention are thus warned, those not paying attention will be surprised.

Chapter 24
A this point a review of the history of Judah and its kings are in order. In 2 Chronicles 36 for sure and before it lists the kings of Judah in order. Some understanding of this is important in determining how the nation became separated into two parts one represented by a basket of good figs, and the other represented by the basket of bad figs. The good figs were taken before the worst trouble in Jerusalem, and protected, nourished, etc. remotely (an example similar to Christians taken at the rapture before the tribulation period?). The bad figs represent those that endured the worst trouble in Jerusalem- (those left in the tribulation period?). Jeremiah stayed – an example that God will have a voice during the tribulation period. Now the kings of Judah and how we got to two baskets of figs.
Starting with Hezekiah- a good king

Then Manasseh- an evil king, he is referenced as the reason Judah is punished, the people followed him as he practiced terrible things, including burning of children. 2 Chron 33 says he was taken with a hook in his nose to Assyria where he repented and God accepted it allowing him to return to Jerusalem. I guess the man repented, but the practices he started and allowed continued.

Then Amon – evil

Then Josiah – well behaved

Then Jehoahaz (all sons of their father to this point) Jehoahaz was taken to Egypt by the Egyptian king and his brother was established as king by the Egyptians.

Jehoiakim (Jehoahaz' brother) was evil- Nebudchadnezzar came (1st wave of Babylon, and he was taken to Babylon with the “best of Judah” (rapture like?)

Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim's son)became the next king – established by Babylonians- Nebuchadnezzar later ordered him brought to Babylon as well along with Temple valuables.

Zedekiah (Jehoiachin's uncle – I'm guessing another son of Josiah) was the next king- established by the Babylonians. He was evil, and rebelled against Babylon. This caused Nebuchadnezzar to come for the second time to Jerusalem. This is where it was destroyed completely and people killed indiscrimanently.

The two baskets – one are the Jews taken after Nebudchadnezzar's first visit (good figs) – tucked away and protected by God in Babylon. The bad figs are the ones left in Jerusalem, and those that eventually tried to escape to Egypt when Nebuchadnezzar came the second time.

God said the good figs He will see to it they are cared for, and the bad figs He will see to it they are killed.

June 28, 2009 Jeremiah Chs 17-20

2009-06-28T17:50:00.001-07:00

For Wordlisteners tonight we had 7, and we read and discussed Jeremiah
chapters 17-20. Next week is Praise and Worship, so it will be two
weeks (July 12) before we meet again. A story was told about how at some
Bible schools the kids don't want to go home afterwards because of their
lives. The parents don't care. It came up after the text about how
Judah had burned their kids with fire. Selfishness can get to such a
condition that our own kids don't matter, the same happened then as now.
Lord Jesus come quickly.

Chapter 17
Judah's sin is engraved, there is clear evidence of it. God will give away their possessions- what He in fact had given them, they will become slaves.

His message: strong and proud who feel that God is unnecessary, they will be cursed. They will have no roots or purpose, they will blow around like tumbleweeds. These are people who feel like their efforts have made their life, they don't realize it is of God.

Those that trust in God- like a tree planted in Eden. Trust in God is the way back to Eden folks. Worries are unnecessary even in bad circumstances. Those that trust God bear fruit every season.

Recently in Sunday school people were reminded of the need to "trust and obey"

Trust your heart? (as opposed to God?) - the heart is dark and deceitful, and can't be figured out (by us). We can never really know another's heart, only suspect. Some people are good at pretending. God searches hearts, He finds the truth there and treats people as they really are – He can't be fooled.

Cheaters and deceivers will be exposed, since God knows people's hearts He will expose them. We are living in pride if we think He has to settle all accounts in our time and not His. A dishonest rich person will look like a fool- riches is something we tend to respect, yet a lost rich person is a tragedy. A lost person is just as much a tragedy.

God is the hope of Israel, those who leave Him will end up looking like fools, again He doesn't leave us. Jeremiah asks Him to pick up the pieces- all his proclaimed doom from the mouth of God hasn't happened - again people in pride expecting God to act on their time and not His.

God gave Jeremiah a message- keep the Sabbath Holy, don't turn it into another day. Which God said they had done- not kept the Sabbath properly- like their ancestors. So He tells them that if they will do that then Jerusalem would always be filled with people. If they choose not to listen then Jerusalem will be destroyed. Obeying God brings blessing, disobeying Him brings tragedy (Trust and obey).

Chapter 18
More obedience, Jeremiah is told to go to the potter's house (without any idea why) just that he would get the message when he got there. One of the instances in the Bible where God tells people what they need as they need it. If He tells us too much in advance our pride tends to cause us to question God. God used the potter as an example to Jeremiah to show we are like clay in His hands. If we don't turn out He might get rid of us, if we repent, He might start over with us. If we don't listen to Him, He might give up on us. I wonder how close He is to doing that with this country? He has plans for us, if we are obedient.

For Judah and Jerusalem He is planning doom, but still giving them an opportunity for real repentance. He says then that they have left Him for the big lie, gotten off the well worn trail in favor of bush whacking through underbrush. They will look for God on the day of their doom and see His back, what they have shown Him for so long.

Some get the idea that shutting up Jeremiah the messenger will somehow shut up the message. They will still have others that say what they want to hear. In my work a lot of effort is put into making sure people get certain information. Posting it and expecting them to read it on their own is not acceptable, usually it has to be read to them and a signature obtained that they were made aware and agree to abide by it. This way certain policies can be enforced, ignorance of the law is an excuse these days. This strikes me as similar, people are trying to make God jump through that hoop, claiming they don't know of Him or His message to Him. In fact this action is a denial of God and His authority. So many of our actions testify to God. I think the greatest one is our acknowledgment that we don't know everything. All of us have to acknowledge that. I don't know Chinese- one of thousands of examples. I don't know other's hearts but I believe SomeOne does, that someone being God.

Jeremiah knows of the plot against him, and it wears down some of his resolve and his softness for his people. He has had enough and he is ready for God to act. He goes from praying for them in one sentence to asking God to send judgment on them.

Another interesting thing is that his rant to God against those out to get him. God listens, but then starts Chapter 20 by sending Him to do something positive. At least potentially positive.

Chapter 19
The clay pot example. Go buy a pot, call the leaders together, and say what the Lord tells you. God warns of impending doom – which probably means there is a way out, He wants them to turn to Him. They have served other gods and sacrificed children, turning their back on God. God is canceling His plans -for the town and the people, and will let them be killed instead. People will become cannibals- eating one another just to trying to cling to survival in this life.

Jeremiah is then to smash a clay pot- such that it can't be put back together. Like a Topheth, the whole city will be an open grave. Then Jeremiah went to Jerusalem and preached the doom of it- why? Because the people were set in their ways and were not listening to God. It wasn't that God was mad, but rather that we wouldn't obey Him.

Chapter 20
Pashur (which means prosperity everywhere), the senior priest in God's Temple did not like Jeremiah's message when he heard it, so he had Jeremiah whipped, and then put him in stocks. Just overnight. Rather than considering the message may be from God and doing some reflecting, submitting and repentance, he went after the messenger. How many time do we defend our actions rather than considering the source of the information we hear? We feel we are enlightened and I'm sure Pashur with his position felt he knew "best"- its pride.

Jeremiah says that God's new name for him is "danger everywhere". This isn't Jeremiah mad about what had happened to him, but rather a man in relationship with God, sharing what he is told to. Exactly what the priest was supposed to do. He continues to prophesy about Jerusalem's and Pashur's fate.

Pashur's decision will affect his family, and examples of this happen many times in the Bible as well as in our lives. Where one person's decision causes his/her family to be destroyed or blessed. Often times we get too much into self, and we deny this truth. Parent's actions or lack thereof often cause kids lives to be affected.

Jeremiah then shares his experience of being obedient to God, but not being well received by people. He is obedient by faithfully delivering the words he is given although they aren't what the people want to hear. He tires of their lack of positive response and tries to resist giving God's messages, and the words burn- he has to let them out. His audience doesn't want to hear them. Its interesting that Jeremiah is labeled by the people something close to what God had renamed the chief priest that put him in stocks. Is this the people confessing through their ignorance that Jeremiah was God's chosen for chief priest? The people are looking for Jeremiah to misstep in his walk with the Lord, the same as they would do to Jesus. God protects him though, God that looks on the hearts, Jeremiah can rest his case with God and not have to worry.

Now for a little depression, a man who walked with God longing to have never been born? Same as Job? He sees the future and he knows it is grim. He has said it over and over and he believes it. Even though it hasn't happened yet, it will because God said it.

June 21, 2009 Jeremiah 14-16 notes

2009-06-21T18:02:00.001-07:00

We had four tonight for Wordlisteners. Jeremiah 14 and 15 have some
good points. When I prepared the notes for Chapter 14 I outlined a
"sermon" - its just so relevant for today. We had a lively discussion
and I enjoyed it.

My notes are as follows:

Chapter 14
There is a drought, the rich are suffering- the rich usually are last to suffer. Farms are in ruins, animals are abandoning their young- a sign of severity.

They have exhausted all efforts and come back to God (have they?) begging Him to act. They admit they are sinners, and they come to Him as their last resort. They know they don't deserve it, but they ask Him to act for His own sake. They accuse Him of not caring- acting like a tourist. Wondering why He is leaving them in a lurch. His response – they did their own thing, and never gave Him a thought, so He will let them continue in the same way. He will merely note their guilt and punish them.

Notice- they came to God as the "last resort". They verbalized they were guilty, but no actions corresponding with repentance are present (no turning away from sin- its all verbal). They have Jeremiah who intercedes for them, and God tells him not to pray for these people. God says they will skip meals in order to pray, bring Him offerings but the underlying fault they still haven't addressed is that God desires their obedience to Him. They won't give it. There are preachers who tell them things will be all right- but these people aren't listening to God, nor is God telling them to say such- they are making it up. Sheer illusions. God is going to make the preachers eat their words and the people will experience the full brunt of their own evil.

Jeremiah cries. He sees his people battered and bruised, sees fields of unburied dead. He sees starvation – he sees preachers pretending nothing has happened. How does God let this happen? They wanted peace, they wanted healing, they admit they are sinners, then they try to control God by talking about His reputation, His temple, They even put God nearly in the right position- by saying He is above all the gods they have been serving. They are waiting on God, but only because they have exhausted all their other possibilities.

Chapter 15
God has had enough, even intercession by Moses and Samuel would not be enough. The people wonder what God wants (He still wants obedience) but now the choices aren't comforting. He has assigned some to die, some to be killed in war, some to starve, and some to exile. Go do what you were assigned to He says- He consistently wants our obedience. The dead won't be buried, but rather be food for dogs, vultures and hyenas. The entire world will see. Not because God isn't fair, but because of Man's choice- Mannasseh is the example held up. The people followed Manasseh as he (2 Kings 21:1-16)- He re-introduced previously purged moral rot, he built sex shrines, he listened to constellations- building temples for these within God's temple, he burned his own son, practiced black magic and fortune telling, held seances and consulted spirits, placed an image of asherah (sex god) in the Temple, he indiscriminately murdered people.

Who will feel sorry for those people who went along with the evil king? Obey leaders as they obey God. Following a leader's sin is not going to be a valid excuse before God.

The people left God, it wasn't that God left them (it never is). He was tired of letting them off the hook, so He let them be scattered. He made sure they lost all He had given them. Widows will be created, and moms will lose their children. Death will happen, and those that aren't killed will be rounded up and killed.

Jeremiah was obedient to God by telling the country exactly what God had asked him to. The country responded to him by hating him, some plotted to physically hurt him to stop the messenger. Jeremiah prayed for them and their best interests.

Who can endure God's judgment, what are the chances of outlasting Him? As vast as God's universe is and as small and insignificant we are compared to that, our pride tends to want to elevate us. God planned to take what He had given to Israel (which would be everything) and give it to someone else. What would Israel be left with? Nothing, making them slaves.

Now an interesting little sidebar. Jeremiah states his obedience and his submission. He longed for God's word and eagerly accepted it. Jeremiah never joined the party crowd with their focus on self interest. Yet he was in pain, severe chronic pain that he wasn't healed from (compares to some extent to Paul's thorn in the flesh). His pain was so bad that he called God a mirage. God responded take your words back and use your words carefully. Use words well, no cheap whining. Do we complain about the state of the world and how bad things are and how we wish they would get better? Thats what I see as cheap whining- God wants us to stay on message (His message)- His positive message and come to the place where we won't change our message to suit others. When we do that he will protect us, and the attacks will bounce off. God will defend us.

Chapter 16
A message for Jeremiah- don't get married, don't have a family. The judgment is pronounced. Will a similar message come out for the faithful just before the trib period? Since people will marry up the last day I think this means He will take us, and protect us, a subtle point that supports rapture. In Jeremiah's day His people were about to endure His judgment so not marry or have kids was actually a statement to protect them, or make it easier for them.

In Judah children will be killed, there will be stacks of dead- unburied like the result of Armageddon. Jeremiah had a tremendous heart for these people – often crying for them and with them. God said stop. His judgment is pronounced, famous and obscure will be affected- this is a comprehensive judgment. Don't attend funerals, no laughter, no smiles. As bad as he can imagine, it will be worse. In the last days it will be worse than our active imaginations can think. Jeremiah was told he would see the judgment in his time- God said it.

Jeremiah continues to share with the people. They ask what they had done wrong. They had no idea that they had continued the actions of their ancestors by turning away from God. They turned from His ways in favor of their own. They did what they wanted and ignored God. They paid Him no attention. Its interesting in our day there are two un-churched generations. People like to plead ignorance of God but can they really? Or is it just denial and an avoidance of what acknowledging God has to mean. God's word is at an all time high in terms of availability, but God denial may be just as high.

God will act and bring Israel back from exile, gather them from all over the world. A miracle on the order of (and more recent than) the parting of the red sea. People will talk about it. This I believe is prophecy of the future (now) - post WW2.

On a more immediate note (Jeremiah's time) people will be looking for the jews trying to escape God's judgment (God will see that it happens), and bring them back for His judgment. He knows where they all are, and they won't get away without facing it. I think the Babylonians were the group, and God set judgment in motion.

God is then called a safe retreat when trouble descends (His church will be safe during the tribulation period?). He will protect and it will be clear to the world that it is Him (some may try and deny). The godless nations will come, and God will teach the wrongheaded people (Himself). He will teach them who He is and what He does.

June 14th 2009 Wordlisteners

2009-06-14T17:35:00.001-07:00

Tonight we had 7 total and we went over 4 chapters. Jeremiah 9-13. I
read out of the message. The comparisons between Judah before the
Babylonian invasion and exile and the worldly conditions we currently
find ourselves in is striking.

Hard times with the root cause of wickedness.
Denial of God- widespread.

Its amazing, but hopefully it means Jesus is coming soon.

Chapter 10
Listen to God's message, don't look at what others are doing, focus on God. They look like they have it all together, like they have all the answers, but there is no substance. They are worshiping a god that gives them pleasure but has no power.

God cannot be compared to what the other nations worship, there is no comparison. When God is angry the earth shakes, even the godless nations. God made the earth and the heavens, their gods were made by people like us, that really God created. A disobedient or unknowing people.

God sends the rains, their gods get wet, good for starting fires. Our God put the entire universe together. He gives notice of His actions to those willing to listen. He says what He will do, other gods have no voice.

When God says it is bad, it is bad, it will be complete, total, unless He says otherwise. We need to believe Him for what He says and not put our own interpretations on it. Property and children gone as a result of invasion, nobody to help rebuild. God wasn't asked for counsel, it was reasoned out by human thought. His counsel comes in the form of prayers to Him and listening to His answers, without His counsel and following His direction, nothing works right. He warns that something is happening (prayer or not?) -are we listening? Mortals can't run their own lives, we get too caught up in our ways, wants and desires. Here is a request for God to correct us as he sees fit. This is a submitted position before God. His anger is recognized as something to avoid as it is asked that he send it to the godless nation, those that don't acknowledge Him, and those that don't pray. Also those who are actively opposed to His people. Four different groups, all of which we can readily think of examples of.

Chapter 11
One of Jeremiahs sermons- direct from the mouth of God. Jeremiah is told to preach to the people of Judah that not keeping the covenant will mean a curse. The same covenant made to the people that left Egypt. Its all about obey God, obedience closes the deal. Not sacrifice, but a listening to God and being obedient to what He says.

God has warned those who were disobedient for a multitude of generations. He has always had that reminder in front of them in some form or fashion. They didn't listen, and He finally acted. Its interesting that they "mindlessly" broke the covenant. Not thinking, not studying, not paying attention to details can cause all kinds of damage to a lot of things. It is also easier to justify non-action, and ignoring. Ignoring God doesn't mean He isn't there, but rather is a measure of our hard headed-ness and stubbornness. Not only won't He not go away but ignoring Him brings about doom for everyone. Stubborn humans will still try to ignore Him , and look for ways out by praying to the things they value. The things that are valued by humans seem to be what they seek in crisis. Not God. For Judah they have reached a point that God tells Jeremiah not to intercede for them. When they do try and pray to God as a last resort, He will not hear them.

In the house of worship during the crisis promises will be made to God, programs developed and people will become more religious. Their goal is to get out of crisis and not establish relationship with God. They still want their own way, and would rather not suffer as any of us would. They hope by acknowledging God they will have their crisis alleviated, but still be in control of their lives. Rather than surrendered and obedient to God. They are far more fragile than they realize, or are willing to admit.

Doom pronounced by God comes about by our disastrous life, and a point of continually denying Him in favor of other gods.

There is a subplot here- Jeremiah was informed of it by God. A plot to kill him to prevent Jeremiah from spreading a message God told Him to. Denial of God can get to the point where we avoid things, and we try to shut people up who say things we don't like- it happened then, it happens now. Jeremiah asks God to be the judge, and God responds by sending doom to that town (Anathoth was Jeremiah's hometown). The people closest too him worldly speaking were the ones that were most upset about his message from God. This is repeated again in Jesus time, their unbelief in Him was so prevalent, that He didn't do many miracles for them. The really sad thing hear is that in trying to stop the words and message of Jeremiah they were really opposed to God. We need to widen the focus of our lives, put God and His will at the center, its so easy in our world to leave Him out.

Chapter 12
God is right (always) and He sets things right. Now Jeremiah asks the question why do bad people seemingly have it so good. They act as if they know God, and meanwhile He feels like he can't get by with anything. He asks how long does a people (we) have to put up with a depressed country with farms in ruins- root cause = wickedness, and wicked lives. Sounds like today (2009). The Lord's answer is that it will get worse. The depressed country and ruined farms is nothing compared to what is ahead, and the wicked haven't gotten away with anything.

Jeremiah didn't feel he could away with anything because his relationship with God was so close that when he felt he was doing something wrong he became acutely aware of it and it saddened him. Probably prompting from God's spirit. The wicked on the other hand, in denial of God, can sin all day and will never experience remorse. So they appear happy, they may even feel they have figured God out and pretend to be friends with Him- without really obeying.

It will get worse and the Lord warns Jeremiah that those closest to him are working against him. He will turn His back on His people Israel. Invaders will trample His land that He gave to His people. Nothing living will be safe, the crops will fail (sowing and reaping will not work as it has- because God will no longer be involved). The plans of the people will fail, all a result of their turning away.

He will relent and restore them, and give them another chance to live His way. Hopefully they will serve God with the same fervor as they served baal. If so things will go well, if not then total destruction. I don't think we have seen this- Israel serving God.

Chapter 13
This is almost a parable showing what pride can do. The people are the new shorts that God wears, then Jeremiah is told to send them out away from God- who really is the one who takes care of the shorts. Over time and being separated from God the caregiver the shorts rot. Our pride, our plans, our confidence can absolutely get the best of us, and we will lose sight often of our constant dependence on God. He cared for His people but He will no longer, and the consequences of their actions will become apparent. God protects us from a lot that we often don't realize, let alone give Him credit for.

Now he switches to a wine example. People are going to get so intoxicated with pride that they will be smashed. Their actions will bring about their destruction, and this will apply to young and old alike.

Jeremiah then pleads with them, and informs them that the message he is proclaiming is really from God. He reminds them that God is still currently protecting them even though they don't realize it, but it is about to end. The light they see by will be gone and they will grope in the dark. Jeremiah longs to go off on his own so he doesn't have to see it, and weep. He sees their fate, even though they don't.

The position of king and queen will be removed, the country will be surrounded by enemies. Ending in being conquered and exile. He points out the facts- invaders to the north. When they do realize their fate they will wonder why, almost as a surprise. They took for granted protection from God and did their own thing rather than His will, and it will end badly- when I write that I think of the US. Its on the same path. The people of Judah were guilty.

What are the odds someone so well practiced in evil will suddenly do good? This implies that godliness (doing good) should be a regular practice. What is coming to them is justice, they have turned away from God and embraced Baal (the big lie). God will remove His protection and all the world will see their shame. All the things they hoped in and put before God will fail, and for some that is a lot.

May 31, 2009 Wordlisteners

2009-05-31T17:19:00.001-07:00

We had eight tonight and covered Chapters 7-9 of Jeremiah. The
discussion was lively and God spoke to each of us through His word.

There is NO Wordlisteners next week - 1st Sundays are praise and worship
services and we have a bluegrass band coming. Please join us at 7pm.

Our next Wordlisteners will be June 14 at 7pm, and we will be on
Jeremiah Chapters 10-13 most likely.

Notes from tonight:

Jeremiah Chapter 7
God is not fooled, He sees what we do, he knows are true motives (not what we might try and convince ourselves of), and He is aware of our effort. He will act, He has in the past- we only need to consider Israel. In Jeremiah's time Israel was the example of what would happen. Judah didn't believe it so now we have both of them as examples for us.

We fail to listen, and yet He speaks to us through His word. His word is the best documented now as it ever has been in History, and yet understanding of His principles may be at an all time low for most people.

He calls us to truly acknowledge our ways - that they are not His, and to adjust our thinking.

The situation was so bad, he told Jeremiah not to pray (intercede) for that people. He is not going to listen, His decision is set in motion. I don't know how He measures it, but he has had enough. The situation was so bad that there was cultural denial of God (much like today). Fathers, mothers, and children all working in ways detrimental to themselves. He doesn't say they were hurting God but rather they are hurting themselves. Our actions have no bearing on God but rather only on us. We might make Him sad that we (His creation reject Him) but we can't hurt Him, we can only hurt ourselves. In addition to only hurting ourselves, we look ridiculous and are shameful when choose not to follow His ways.

Enough there now God points something else out. Our giving, we convince ourselves that if we give to God we're OK- whether we obey Him or not. We think we buy, if you will, passes for transgressions. We put something on the "good" side of the scale. All God wants from us is obedience. We try and give Him things that compared to obedience are easier for us. We try and buy our way out of commitment. Even doing this -which is continued disobedience- God reaches out to us. He has sent prophets, He sent Jeremiah. He tells Jeremiah to warn the people but at the same time not expect anyone to listen. Are we faithful and obedient to God even when we realize no actual results (seemingly)?

We expect that if we are obedient to God, then He is required to act, and things will happen the way we see the result. This is not the case. We want our obedience to be rewarded now (in this life). Why? Because it looks good before men. It raises us up, makes us stick out, and is often one of the motivating factors behind obedience (or the appearance of obedience). We can serve God for years, perhaps our entire life and never see a reward. With this possibility in mind what is your obedience level?

Our selfishness, our turning away from God, our insistence on our own ways, even though He is reaching out, will eventually bring about His anger. Not that our actions ever control God, but more like He gets tired of watching us hurt ourselves (or multitudes of others) and decides to act. One of the disobediences in Jeremiah's time was the sacrificing of children -burning of babies. God watched and wooed and warned, and finally acted to stop it. The parallels between that and our modern sophisticated abortion are quite obvious. They sacrificed their children to gods they thought would make their life better or cause them a more enriching life, how many abortions are performed because a child "now" would "ruin" the parents life. Children then and children today truly suffered for their parent's whims and pleasures.

Chapter 8
When God has enough, and acts, then social standing will offer no protection. The rich and the poor will all suffer the same fate, and be powerless to stop it. The gods in Jeremiah's day and the gods in our day are powerless to stop God's will. When he does act, those that survive will wish they had not.

People are prideful and stubborn. Once set on a course of action how many people will admit they personally are wrong. Don't believe we are stubborn -how many times has the same thing been tried with different results expected? Why do we do this? We have talked ourselves into believing our illusions, or blaming the undesired result on someone or something else. We need to align our actions with God's Word. Only then are we guaranteed success by any real standard. Our logic and feelings often lead us to courses of action not in alignment with God's word, and our pride and stubbornness blinds us to this fact.

God listens for repentant hearts, those that realize their way is flawed and seek a better way. He wants us to realize the truth that we don't have all the answers. He wants us to confess it to Him. He does have all the answers by the way. Prior to the Babylon invasion of Judah, God searched and found no repentant hearts, no person with regrets, no person apologizing to Him for going their own way. The people of Judah were in the midst of constant destructive behavior heading backwards (away from God) to madness.

Animals are to be an example for us. They see how God made things and follow that rather than re-order (or vainly try to) what God has done. We on the other hand can get so caught up in self that we forget God and His ways, and what we do know about God.

We are so sophisticated, in our own mind. We get to the point we feel we have figured God out. We claim all the promises He offers in His word, but we ignore the fact that the promises usually come about from obedience to Him. Judah felt it was a nation chosen by God and He would protect them from the Babylonians like He did from the Assyrians. Their leaders told them they would be safe, they were experts, but they didn't know God's word. Many people do not. Often people have opinions on all sorts of issues, but couldn't tell you God's. He asks if that is knowing?

The know it alls will suffer the loss of family and homes. Money is the focus, and truth is twisted and or partially ignored. God is misrepresented, and the country will be in shambles, but their stubbornness and pride will keep them from seeing the truth of their condition and its cause. Bad times come about due to the fallen condition of man, and an ignorance of and turning from God. There is a bottom to which we as people can sink, and God knows that point. The point where we are beyond turning back as a people.

After that point God will confirm it. He will see what is salvageable, if anything. Now the next scripture really jumps out, at this point God will take back what He has given. Pause- think about it. God gave us everything we have that is good, so if He now takes it away, what is left?

Now what? and this will be repeated in the battle of Armageddon, there will be those that realize it is from God, so what will they decide to do? They decide to accept their state and fight- against God's will. That is the ultimate in stubbornness and pride. God's judgment is poured out and they want it their way a different way. In Judah's time as the Babylonian army poured in from the North the people knew they were doomed. They did not even think of repentance and asking for mercy- even then. Their fate is sealed.

Jeremiah has a heart for his people and cries for them, they still cling to their gods, they still hope for rescue without repentance. He sees so clearly what they refuse to, and that is their need for God. He sees their ignorance of the things of God. To watch anyone make a mistake, make a decision that you know is disastrous, to turn away wise counsel in favor of their fixed decision is probably the hardest thing we ever see as a person. None of us are immune either, we all probably wear blinders when it comes to certain courses of action. We are convinced we did the right thing, just as those we watch are convinced they made the right decision. Jeremiah's anguish is understandable. It is only submitted fully to Christ in every facet of our lives and having learned (been taught by Him to hear His voice), that we have any hope of avoiding blinded bad decisions due to our natural tendencies of stubbornness and pride.

Chapter 9
Jeremiah weeps at the casualties of his people. It is so sad to watch someone take the wrong route in life. He longs for being in a remote place, a place where he doesn't have to watch. He is frustrated by their unbelief, to go with his sorrow at their choices.

Whats wrong with Jeremiah's people? They tell lies. Its interesting that this is the starting point. What comes out of our mouths, what we say. If evil comes out of our mouths then our actions will soon follow, and they will advance from one evil to another. Where do we need to go for truth? Trusted family members?- NO, friends? -NO, Neighbors? -NO. People (in general) have told lies for so long they no longer know the truth. They have started out believing a lie (contrary to God's Word, then modified it to grow into more lies as God put the evidence in their lives that they were wrong, and kept going until the truth is completely lacking in their lives. This leads to multitudes of wrongs, and more lies and a refusal to acknowledge God. So to speak truth one needs to be in fellowship with God, ther is no other place to go.

Once a people has denied God in all areas, then God can only melt them down, to show them what they are made of. In crisis a person's true character comes out. In good times a facade is maintained – pleasantries – lies spoken, intentions of deception, a belief that denies God, or denies He will act.

In Jeremiah's time God allowed invasion, loss of real estate -pastures (really its wealth). To dangerous, the wealth removed – to where? Taken by invaders. Towns reduced to rubble – destroyed by invading armies. What will happen in our time with all the budget cuts?

A question is asked- does anyone know why this is happening? Can they see the big picture? Probably a lot of finger pointing but not any bottom line answers. Bottom line- they abandoned God's teachings, refused to listen to Him, refused to live His way. Instead they reasoned out the way they wanted to live based on their selfish desires, and told lies (justified their choices) to the point they believed them.

So God will feed them pig slop, its interesting this shows up in the prodigal son story. Here a nation abandons God, there its a person. He'll send poison, scatter them and death will follow.

We're so good, we don't abandon God's plain teaching. We forgive those who have wronged us, and don't keep a record of it. We faithfully tithe, we don't gossip, we are completely open and honest. After a little thought each and every one of us is reminded of our short comings before God. Repent and learn.

They realized what was happening so they mourned their loss. They were ashamed about their loss of land, homes, children. No lament that they turned away from God anywhere in that chapter, only the loss of possessions. It was all about appearances and not genuine sorrow at the turning away from the Creator of all things.

God's message to them- don't brag about how good they are, or what they can do. Only brag about knowing and understanding God. God who sets things right and fair, ever heard "life's not fair", well God wants it to be. He sets things right and wants us to also. He will personally deal with those so externally focused on the world and what they have or don't have rather than being focused on their relationship with God.

In the last verse there is a reference to performance religion, and appearance of Godliness- an appearance of doing the right things. God will deal with those nations and people personally. Have you realized an error, a misconception of what God wants? Surrender it to Him, confess it, turn from it and let Him show you His way. A better way.

May 24 2009 notes Jeremiah Chapters 4-6

2009-05-24T17:09:00.000-07:00

We had a wonderful fellowship of 6 people, God is awesome.

Chapter 4
If we want God we have to really want Him. We have to put Him first, not us. That is difficult enough, and not something easily done. However, if we make that choice, verbalize it, and ask His help, and pay attention to Him. He will help us. Signs that we mean business- we get rid of our sin paraphernalia, and not wander away from Him. We must keep our focus on God.

When we live like this the godless nations and other people will get caught up in the blessing, and God may use it.

Another message- plow your heart- get it ready, ready for new ideas. Receive God. Our wicked ways are fuel for the fire of God's anger.

Now were back to Jeremiah's message specifically to Judah. God has set off an invasion from the north. He allowed it, He decided and was not going to change His mind. He however is warning them. Verse 10 it is said God assured them all would be well, and yet the invasion was starting. Jeremiah warned them, their other prophets told them otherwise (which wasn't from God). God is warning them.

Now the description of the invasion. Jerusalem scrub the evil from your lives. The invasion will sweep down from the north, the people have time. Why did the invasion come about- Judah rebelled against Him. Its not God, but rather the consequences of how they lived. Disaster and more disaster, death and destruction constant. Homes destroyed. Again because of the way we live.

God's comments- we don't realize who He is, we are selfish and do our own thing, its awkward for us to do the things of God. God saw the earth in a pre-Genesis mode. No stars, no men or women, all the towns were ghost towns. This will be the end result of the invasion. God has set this in motion and it will happen.

Even though the whole country will be desolate, God isn't done, its not the end. When bad things happen in our lives, destruction, etc. Its not the end. God is still there and wants relationship with us.

God says the invasion will result in death, its still not over, because God transcends death. Turn to him, and mean it.

Chapter 5
Patrol the streets of Jerusalem, look for a righteous person. See if you can find one. God did this (or rather Abraham asked the number of righteous that would spare the city) before He destroyed Sodom. He did it before He destroyed Jerusalem. He does not act unfairly. He has an eye for the truth, and He tried to instruct them. To no avail. He disciplined, but they refused correction. This was true for the poor as well as the well to do. Neither group accepted correction, the entire society was that way. The people betrayed God over and over, the streets weren't safe, and the invaders are ready to pounce.

God's question- why should He continue bothering with us. Our children don't give God the time of day. He met their needs and they still left for sex gods. Adultery and lust is rampant, God will act, He will take serious measures. His instruction to the invaders- prune the vines back. Their actions were not God ordained. Israel and Judah had betrayed God over and over again, just like us.

They like we spread lies about God. We deny His power, or more likely that He will act. When we consider our position before God, the fact that He doesn't act at everyone of our transgressions is understandable. Our pride fools us into thinking more highly of ourselves than we should. We like the prophets of that day believe He will keep us safe, nothing bad will come. Again a pride elevated assessment of ourselves.

God told them in Jeremiah's time that they would eat their false words about Him. This condition was also widespread to the point where finding "one righteous" would have been difficult. He sent a nation to slay them, their kids and crops. To show the reliability of the idols they had chosen, which was none. Anything other than God will not hold up.

In the middle a nugget- as bad as it will get, God will not make it the end of the world. He still longs for relationship with us from a repentant heart. Just as they left Him for others, He is allowing them to serve others- its what they thought they wanted anyway, and the very nature we all have.

Eyes see, but not really. Ears hear, but not really. Why don't we honor God, why are we not in awe of Him? We take His creation and His protection for granted. He contains the oceans. These people never "say" how can we honor God with our lives. The God who sends rain, the seasons, and keeps everything running smoothly. Its our sins that keep His blessings at a distance.

His people are infiltrated with the wicked- non-God serving. They are out for their own wants and desires. Its true today, the spirit of selfishness can abide in church, elevated assessments due to pride. These wicked have no conscious, don't consider right and wrong. What does it lead to? Prophets teaching lies, and priests assisting them. They say what we want to hear, and we eat it up. Its what we desire, its confirmation (we think of our desires). God asks - what happens when it all falls apart and we have to pick up the pieces?

Chapter 6
Here comes the invasion- He is faithful to warn. He says leave Jerusalem. Do
they? Is it what they want? Is it easy? No. Soon they are surrounded, they didn't listen. Siege ramps built against Jerusalem, a city of brutality and violence, wickedness non-stop (24/7). Violence, rape and bleeding victims. Our biggest industries are medical and prisons- sounds like we are close, and He told Jerusalem at that time, they were on the brink of being wiped out.

Times up, harvest the grapes for judgment, salvage what is left of Israel. God will act (He does act), and He is thorough. Every detail- glory to God. Is anybody listening, a warning is posted- nobody notices. God has been tuned out, they don't want to hear from Him. They are too sophisticated- they have determined their own answers. God's wrath is soon coming.

Everyone seeks dishonest dollars, truth is twisted and doctored. His people are broken - shattered. Are His people embarrassed by the outrage of the way the nation has gone? No they don't know how to blush. That is the finished condition according to the Almighty.

Ask directions to the old road, the tried and true (God's ways)- and take it. Discover the right route for your soul. His people rejected it. We don't want God's way, we want our own, but God's way is the way that brings about fulfillment and doesn't hurt others. God sends people to warn us, but alas we ignore it, a false alarm we claim. So He will let His nation endure hardship and catastrophe. They had contempt for the teachings of God, and rather gave Him things He doesn't want. We ritualize our worship and go through the motions. Roadblocks are on the way, barriers to what we want, and then invasion is on the way. God Himself allowed it, and the people will react in fear, disbelief, they will think God is angry, but He has had enough of their sin.

God gave Jeremiah the task of examining the people. What were they then, what are they today? Thickheaded, hard-nosed, rotten to the core. All of them the entire lot. So the heat will be turned up to refine, and the slag- those that won't allow the evil to be refined out of them will end up on the slag heap. God will put them there.

Welcome to Word Listeners

2009-05-19T06:48:00.000-07:00

We have in the past done individual reading and discussing of the Bible. The group was a support group to make us more aware of the need to be in Gods word. We would share what God has shown us in His word when we met. After going through Isaiah for a Wednesday night Bible study, we decided as a group to do a study of Jeremiah. Anywhere you read in the Bible is a wonderful thing, and it will be neat to see how God weaves the insights He gives to each of us together as we study and grow. Jeremiah lived in times much like ours, and here are my notes as we begin our study.

After doing a study of the book of Isaiah I felt strongly led to continue. Our Sunday night Bible study seemed the place to continue. In thinking about it a very strong truth came to mind: We have two choices, we can (1) wait for God's direction, and fit (Him) in our busy lives or (2) we can read and study the Bible and listen to His voice and fit ourselves into His plans. There is merit in waiting on God, the Bible says those that do will mount up with wings like eagles. It also says those that seek God will find Him. Its a good thing to fill your life and time with the things of God.

I started reading Jeremiah and in the light of tough economic times and Israel's rebirth approaching 70 years, one particular section stuck out. I didn't initially write it down but that just made my re-reading more careful as I searched to confirm I did actually see it. Its the section where God tells Jeremiah not to pray for the people of Judah anymore, He has set judgment in motion and is not going to listen. In light of the other things in Jeremiah, God's example of His long suffering and His desire that people come back to Him make our efforts seem trivial.

I wondered if one of the signs of end times would be that God tells His people a similar message. There is a lot of symmetry in the Bible with similar circumstances often repeating. I personally have a burden for the lost, I would not want any to suffer or be separated from God. I also know God will give them additional chances, and He will bring each individual to a point of decision.

He is ready even in the trib period to reach out to those that call to Him.

What an awesome God.

In worldly terms Jeremiah was a failure. He preached a long time to a people that did not want to hear his message, did not turn from their ways, and he watched first hand the death of his nation. His burden for his people often led him to tears. Much like the tears of a parent when a child chooses something that the parent knows will cause him/her hardship and anguish.

In heavenly terms he stayed faithful to God, and spoke what he he was given to speak. Jeremiah realized who God is and he realized that His ways are the best and really the ONLY ways to consider. Even in the midst of decline and the destruction around him.

God is the only answer worth pursuing.

Chapter 1
God knew Jeremiah before he was born, before he was conceived, and yes all the way back to when the world was formed. He had a plan for Jeremiah's life. He has a plan for your life- from way back then. All we have to do is submit to His ways.

God told Jeremiah His plan for him. Why? because Jeremiah sought God, and wasn't selfish enough to try and use that information for worldly advantage. He was submitted to God's authority.

How did he react when told? Jeremiah lacked the confidence that he could do what God asked him. How many of us go to job interviews with all our weaknesses hidden and brimming with confidence. Its funny my life experience has taught me that the people who are most confident they can do a job are often the ones that perform the poorest. Over and over again I've seen it. We've all given the "know it alls" plenty of room so when they fall on their face we won't be their
cushion. I got to be careful here, I also believe that we should be praying for the enlightenment of the "know it alls", and be there to help them up.

Jeremiah wasn't the driven individual, the corporate ladder climber, he rather placed his focus on God and look what happened. God went on to tell Jeremiah that He would be with him wherever he went, and that he would see some fearful circumstances, but not to be afraid.

God placed His Word in Jeremiah's mouth. He has blessed us in the US by putting His Word (Bible) in our hands. He also said every word He gave Jeremiah would come true, and for us that means He said His Word (Bible) would come true.

What an awesome God.

God helped Jeremiah to see His ways. He showed Jeremiah things and made sure the signs were interpreted correctly. He coached Jeremiah, He wants the same type of relationship with you. What did Jeremiah have to do? He had to pay attention and let God do the work. He had to submit to God's ways, ask Him in, then let Him prepare Jeremiah for the purpose He had in mind.

He wants to do the same for us.

Chapter 2
God's message came to Jeremiah. Israel had youthful loyalty initially to God. He brought them through the wilderness experience, and other hard places, He took care of them. But like us over time they drifted away. God protected them and yet they walked away (they left God).

God's question is what did He do to cause them to drift. How did He fail them. We know we have drifted when we don't look for Him actively in our lives. We have drifted when we don't see Him in control of the trials and situations that come along in our lives.

Interestingly, if we look back on our lives, we often clearly see Him and His actions.

He has brought us to a good land, but yet we want to do our own thing and not His. We only consider our plans and not His. When we do this we trade seeing the glory of God for what we want. Our actions indicate our choice of putting what we want above what He wants. Its shocking that this happens in terms of way people talk, but it happens all the time. When we make that choice we essentially trade a drink from a clean cool stream for the stagnate collected water of a leaking cistern. The imagery God uses to illustrate this is incredible. It is also so what we do. We choose to leave God, He never leaves us.

Interestingly (I don't believe in coincidence) I happen to be reading Job at this time as well. Between the two books it is quite clear. Disloyalty to God brings about consequences of our actions. At the same the connect does not work the other way- bad circumstances do not necessarily mean a disloyalty to God.

In chapter two it clearly states that our nature is not one that wants to serve. Rather we want to lead and be in charge, be in control. We want our way.

We use sex and religion - it is equated with selfishness. How often do we think of commitment when thinking of sex. A deep commitment between two people. We are more likely to consider the pleasure aspect, usually from a selfish point of view- wanting our needs met.

God planted us, and wants the best for us. Our turning from Him makes us not attractive to Him. In terms of marriages how do husbands turn away from wives? Other women, work, hobbies? How do wives turn away from husbands? Hide from him due to concern over their looks?

In terms of God we like to deny our condition before Him, the fact that we choose to turn away, that we want our own way rather than His. God points out the evidence in our lives - our tracks walking away from Him. We still won't admit our nature, we blame - we can't help it, we're addicted, the fault isn't ours. In turning away from God we turn to other gods: money, cars, dream houses things we think will solve our problems. We get caught up in it.

The people of Judah were doing the same things we see today, and God was pointing this out to them through Jeremiah, and they wouldn't listen. Just like them we don't acknowledge God unless/until a crisis happens in our life, and then what do we want? We expect Him to to act on our time clock, to do what we think is best and is what we want (still want our way).

A confirmation of our desire to be independent and want to be in charge. God states in Jeremiah the He "wasted" His time trying to train the people He chose. They did not pay attention to Him, and they ignored discipline. Something I'm still thinking about- God is "timeless".

What did He tell Jeremiah in Ch 1 - pay attention while He prepared him. What happens when we don't pay attention- God can't prepare us for His best. He won't make us puppets, He gave us free will. We can try to be in charge, and yet He will warn us. Even if we never give Him a thought.

People feel they have to be in charge to get the most out of life. They want to "live life to the fullest". This leaving God out leads to sin and evil, and denial of God. When God doesn't punish us immediately, we interpret it as "God doesn't mind". Yet another lie that we tell ourselves. Judgment will come, and the things we trust that aren't of God will be of no use.

Chapter 3
God's message to Jeremiah. As people we see our mistakes and poor choices, but we want no consequences. God does things to get our attention. Drought is mentioned, how about financial crisis. God wants us to confess our God defiance. He calls us back - and the really neat thing - He will take us back even though He compares our leaving Him to be like cheating with another on our spouse. He wants us back even after that - even though we seldom would take back a cheating spouse.

Even with that offer, we act as though we act as though we have done nothing wrong. We call to Him as we realize our consequences, and actually blame the consequences of our actions on "His anger with us". A tremendous offer of Love we miss as anger. This makes it easy for us not to repent, and we don't.

We see the actions of others and don't learn- we think we're different. God let Israel do as it wanted in hopes the consequences of poor choices would bring about change. It did not, and we do that - we deny God.

Judah watched what happened to their relatives- they were over run by Assyria, and sent into exile. All because they would not repent. After watching this and considering God's message through Jeremiah, you would think Judah wouldn't make the same choices. It did- they did what Israel did, and worse.

God's message to Israel in exile. Turn back, God loves us and He wants a relationship with us. He calls us back. He picks us out individually, wants a relationship with us as individuals, and will give us good leaders. Interestingly He restores Israel, but not Judah.

He will make the future so good, that people will never long for the "good old days". Jerusalem will be the new ark, and Godless nations will honor God. God has planned for a successful relationship between Him and His creation. It will happen, but He still allows us to disappoint (do our own thing).

We cry over our life, God calls out to us. He can and wants to heal us. We have to give up our popular religion (the one that says what we want to hear, the one that doesn't tell us our true sinful condition). Its a cheap lie. Fraud has picked us clean ( I can't help but think of the financial crisis, and how we have spent our futures- creating such debt), it has swindled us of our future.

Repentance, repentance, submit, and pay attention. Don't be rebels, disobeying God.

Chapter 4